identify these please

[kanalomele]

Ok so I'm relying on the experience of this forums experts to help with a delima. I have had torts for 13 plus years now. Focusing on the health of my torts has long been my priority. After spending some time on here, I have been enjoying learning much more than I ever had. But it has made me question the identity of my torts, as I never had before. I have long assumed I have Russians, yes for 13 years I never questioned this. Then after a few months on this forum I have only succed in confusing myself. I'm confident that I have 1 male(my first) who is the size of a Russian but has spurred thighs. Does this happen? I am trying to attach pics and will try to follow up with pics of my two girls, who are larger but also have spurred thighs. Do I have Greeks? If so what subspecies? Testudo is tough and has taught me how much I have to learn.

 

[Tom]

Don't worry. You have Russians. Sometimes they also have those little spurs like that.

 

[kanalomele]

Female # 1

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Female #2

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Hmm looks like I screwed up the plastron shot of the girls and posted the same one twice! Gonna try again.

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Apparently I didn't and they are just that similar...

 

[dmmj]

Wow nice looking russians and how did you get 2 females?
Plastrons on russians there is no difference between male and females.

 

[kanalomele]

OMG thank you! You have no idea how frustrated I have been trying to figure out if what I have always believe d was the actual truth! OY! The male (Tucker) has been with me forever. The first girl (Gigi) was a rescue I found through a friend who knew that I had Tucker about 8 years ago, the secong girl (Gloria) was a rescue I just got a couple of months ago from Craigslist

 

[MyBoyHarvey]

those are russians...?
My big boy looks nothing like that..? Do they round out like that when they get older..?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

those are russians...?
My big boy looks nothing like that..? Do they round out like that when they get older..?

How round they are varies from example to example, and possibly by sub-species. Some sources list three separate subspecies of Russian Tortoise, but they are not widely accepted by taxonomists:

Testudo horsfieldii horsfieldii (Gray, 1844) – Afghanistan/Pakistan and southern Central Asia.
Testudo horsfieldii kazachstanica (Chkhikvadze, 1988) – Kazakhstan/Karakalpakhstan.
Testudo horsfieldii rustamovi (Chkhikvadze, Amiranschwili & Atajew, 1990) – southwestern Turkmenistan.

 

[MyBoyHarvey]

Oh cool i didnt know

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Oh cool i didnt know

Only found out a few months ago...seems the notion of 3 Russian tortoises is pretty controversial.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

...I'm confident that I have 1 male(my first) who is the size of a Russian but has spurred thighs. Does this happen? I am trying to attach pics and will try to follow up with pics of my two girls, who are larger but also have spurred thighs. Do I have Greeks? If so what subspecies? Testudo is tough and has taught me how much I have to learn.

Don't worry. You have Russians. Sometimes they also have those little spurs like that.

Yes, Russian tortoises have an interesting morphology, because they have a claw at the tip of their tail like a Hermann, but spurs on their thighs like a Greek. The distinguishing feature is that they are flatter and rounder, and have only four claws on their forelimbs (as opposed to five in other Testudo species), giving rise to another of their common names: four-toed tortoise.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Kazakhstanica- the most encountered in pet-trade- has an upward bend of the front of the plastron- the 2 gular scutes... like a bottom of a tank. That bend is not very obvious in your pictures- please get some that show this feature.
If the bend is strong, it's Kazakhstanica or Kuznetzovi. Is absent, it's Bogdanovi or Rustamovi.
It seems that I get one male seeming like Bogdanovi-type, he's quite different, the front opening is larger than in all others, he's a little more elongate and scales on the base of his "palms" are protruding, almost claw-like, while the rest have smooth scales.
Testudo horsfieldi horsfieldi is virtually absent in collections- I saw only one picture on a French forum and one from a seize in Quetta, Pakistan: VERY domed, VERY different from the northerners that we usually see.

Yours seem to be a little more elongate too?

Anyway, intergrades surely occur...

Check this document and try to put things together :
http://www.iucn-tftsg.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Articles/Chkhikvadze_2009b.pdf

 

[kanalomele]

Wow I had no idea. Testudo is even MORE complicated that I ever believed! I will take a look at the link thanks!

 

[TortoiseBoy1999]

Ok so I'm relying on the experience of this forums experts to help with a delima. I have had torts for 13 plus years now. Focusing on the health of my torts has long been my priority. After spending some time on here, I have been enjoying learning much more than I ever had. But it has made me question the identity of my torts, as I never had before. I have long assumed I have Russians, yes for 13 years I never questioned this. Then after a few months on this forum I have only succed in confusing myself. I'm confident that I have 1 male(my first) who is the size of a Russian but has spurred thighs. Does this happen? I am trying to attach pics and will try to follow up with pics of my two girls, who are larger but also have spurred thighs. Do I have Greeks? If so what subspecies? Testudo is tough and has taught me how much I have to learn.

Russians.

 

[Akronic]

those are nice looking Russians, and HUGE too. do you have SCL measurements for them or weights, you said the male is roughly 13yrs old, that second female looks like a monster