I have a baby sulcata

[kristoformiller]

Thank you I agree. Just wanted to see what kind of response it would get.

 

[kristoformiller]

Dave, the man who wrote that, is now a friend of mine. He seemed to have written it to promote the old fashioned outdated ways of doing things and refute the new findings that I and others had been producing at the time. Many of his assertions about the wild are just plain wrong. A fact that he and I both learned when we met and spent time with Tomas Diagne, who is a sulcata researcher from Senegal, where they are native. For example, Dave says humidity in their natural range is 45-50%. It is almost never in that range. During the dry season when the sulcatas are deep underground, humidity is much lower than that above ground. During the 3-4 month rainy season, ambient humidity in wild sulcata territory is much higher than that. Where did he get that number? I don't know. Tomas confirmed the things that I was promoting and offered a whole lot of new and novel info to us. My friend Dave has since recanted much of what he said on that care sheet due to conversations with me, Tomas and many others. Yet his old info remains on the web for other people to see and have their brains muddled by contradictory info on how to care for their babies. Dave has been having a lot of health issues of late and I suspect that changing the old website is a low priority. He's a good man and I like him, but we disagreed about some key husbandry points in the past. We don't disagree now.

The proof is also very evident as Mike pointed out. Get yourself 12 hatchlings. Raise 6 my way and 6 Dave's way. The difference in results will be obvious. I have done this. I have done many variations of this over many years. I have started and raised hundreds of them in so many ways. If Dave's assertions were true that what I recommend is "wrong and unnatural", then wouldn't my babies fail and do poorly? Yet in reality it is just the opposite. I show Dave pics of my results from hatching to two years old and his eyes got real big. None of his look so good and healthy. Mine look more like they do in the wild. His less so. I don't just have a 100% survival rate for babies that I hatch and start, I have a 100% THRIVE rate for babies I hatch and start. Notice there are no pics of 6 month old or 12 month old tortoises on Dave's site and care sheet there? No 18 or 24 month old pics? There is a reason for that. I have pics of these ages all over the place on my threads.

You will have to choose whose advice you wish to follow. In time you will figure out and learn which ways work best and produce good results. It has been a 20+ year journey for me to figure this all out. I hope I can share what I've learned and shorten your journey considerably.

So soaking is a good thing? And what about feeding everyday? And is like to take my little guy out for sun when it's cold. Can I take him out doors in a box and put the che on him? And is it OK to grow bermuda grass for hI'm from coated seeds? And what's a good way to supplement calcium

 

[kristoformiller]

And hey Tom can I email you sometimes ? I want this guy to have a great life. [email protected]

 

[Tom]

Babies should be soaked daily. After they hit 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. By 500 grams I soak them only 3-4 times a week. By 1000 grams I'm soaking once or twice a week depending on weather. More won't hurt. Sulcata babies hatch at the start of the rainy season. Its hot, humid, and there are marshes, puddles and green growing food everywhere. People often ask, "Well who soaks them every day in the wild?" I answer, "Uhhh... Mother Nature?" Then they say, "Well they live in the desert." I answer, "No they don't. They live in tropical grasslands at the edge of forests. Gotta have substantial annual rainfall to support tree and grass growth. Don't see too many trees and grassy fields in the desert, do ya?" We don't know everything (or much at all...) about what babies do in the wild, but we are learning more and more about what it most likely. When these assumptions are weighed against what does and does not work in our captive environments over many years and many experiments, the picture starts to become ever more clear.

They should be free fed the right foods daily. Grazing grass and weeds in large outdoor enclosures is best.

I sun mine in big black rubber cement mixing tubs with no substrate on colder sunny days. I monitor surface and carapace temps carefully and constantly, and soak them on the way back in. No point in doing it anytime other than mid day as UV levels are so low in winter. So says my UV meters. Its not a big deal to skip two or three weeks in a row if the weather is bad. Won't hurt a thing.

Do not use coated seeds from the hardware store. I prefer these two things for them:
http://www.groworganic.com/premium-horse-pasture-mix-irrigation.html
http://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix
I have grown all sorts of stuff from all sorts of sources. NOTHING works better than these two. I'll plant some squash and African hibiscus every year. Maybe a few other odds and ends, but the vast majority of my feedings come from these two seed mixes. The are THE best.

I use RepCal or ZooMed calcium supplements. A tiny pinch twice a week is all you need. I'd go to three times a week with a baby being fed mostly grocery store greens. It is a good idea to leave a cuttle bone laying around too. They might ignore it, but they might use it too.

 

[kristoformiller]

Thank you so much! And if you need a penpal you have my address !

 

[kristoformiller]

How long do you sun them and howner often and if I sun regularly do I really need an expensive light bulb hanging over him? I feel like it has to hurt his eyes

 

[kristoformiller]

Babies should be soaked daily. After they hit 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. By 500 grams I soak them only 3-4 times a week. By 1000 grams I'm soaking once or twice a week depending on weather. More won't hurt. Sulcata babies hatch at the start of the rainy season. Its hot, humid, and there are marshes, puddles and green growing food everywhere. People often ask, "Well who soaks them every day in the wild?" I answer, "Uhhh... Mother Nature?" Then they say, "Well they live in the desert." I answer, "No they don't. They live in tropical grasslands at the edge of forests. Gotta have substantial annual rainfall to support tree and grass growth. Don't see too many trees and grassy fields in the desert, do ya?" We don't know everything (or much at all...) about what babies do in the wild, but we are learning more and more about what it most likely. When these assumptions are weighed against what does and does not work in our captive environments over many years and many experiments, the picture starts to become ever more clear.

They should be free fed the right foods daily. Grazing grass and weeds in large outdoor enclosures is best.

I sun mine in big black rubber cement mixing tubs with no substrate on colder sunny days. I monitor surface and carapace temps carefully and constantly, and soak them on the way back in. No point in doing it anytime other than mid day as UV levels are so low in winter. So says my UV meters. Its not a big deal to skip two or three weeks in a row if the weather is bad. Won't hurt a thing.

Do not use coated seeds from the hardware store. I prefer these two things for them:
http://www.groworganic.com/premium-horse-pasture-mix-irrigation.html
http://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix
I have grown all sorts of stuff from all sorts of sources. NOTHING works better than these two. I'll plant some squash and African hibiscus every year. Maybe a few other odds and ends, but the vast majority of my feedings come from these two seed mixes. The are THE best.

I use RepCal or ZooMed calcium supplements. A tiny pinch twice a week is all you need. I'd go to three times a week with a baby being fed mostly grocery store greens. It is a good idea to leave a cuttle bone laying around too. They might ignore it, but they might use it too.

How long do you sun them and how often and if I sun regularly do I really need an expensive light bulb hanging over him? I feel like it has to hurt his eyes

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

i sun my torts 1hour to 30minutes everyday, i still use the expensive uvb lighting. I'm unsure how much sun they need to not have to have UVB lights.

 

[kristoformiller]

Thanks for the reply

 

[Tom]

How long do you sun them and howner often and if I sun regularly do I really need an expensive light bulb hanging over him? I feel like it has to hurt his eyes

I sun babies for an hour a day or so, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size I leave them out longer and longer. By 5-6" I'll leave them outside in nice weather for most of the day. As long as you can get them out a couple times a week for an hour or so, you really don't need artificial indoor UV bulbs. In the event that you want to use MVBs or florescent tubes, it should not hurt their eyes if used correctly. Just don't let the pet shop talk you into one of the coil type cfl bulbs.