humidity for 1 yr old

[sopo]

Wow, I haven't been on in a while and came back and the entire forum is different!

Savi is almost a year old. She has been kept in an exo terrarium with coco fiber substrate. The top was covered except for the basking and uv lights. She gets daily soaks. I misted her often when younger but not as much the last 6 months however, I pour water in her habitat often. I have a humidity gauge in the entire time. The humidity is generally between 75-87 but ever so often may have dipped to 70 or so but not often. She eats a mix of green, fruits, etc but refuses to eat tortoise chow or mazuri.

She is right at a year old and 5 1/2" shell and ways 423 grams.. but despite the conditions she was kept, she does have some pyramiding started. What did I do wrong? Also, I am wanting to get her a bigger setup as her's is smaller and wanted to know how long I should keep up the humidity or when she can move to a more open option. I love this girl so much and want whats best for her. I feel like I've failed her though.

 

[wellington]

What are you using to read the humidity? Those puck type things you get from the pet stores are not very accurate.
I would keep her in the higher humidity for another year. You can put her out in the warm weather, which is best for her and then have her sleep in the humid enclosure at night. I'm guessing either your humidity gauge is not reading the true humidity or she was just started too dry for too long before you got her. I also recommend not feeding fruit. It's not good for them and they don't need it.
After she is two, you should still house her at night in a higher humidity night box.

 

[sopo]

I just give her fruit for a treat once in a great while. A bite of watermelon or strawberry but not often. I've added a pic of the type of humidity thermostat I use and I thought it was a pretty good one. I also got her pretty young... she was only 19 grams and tiny.

 

[Tom]

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. It sounds like you did a lot of things right, but not quite enough. I would guess the open top and hot bulb were large contributors to the pyramiding. I was never able to grow them as smooth as I wanted with open tops. Only when I switched to closed chambers, with all the heating and lighting INSIDE the enclosure, did I achieve the results I was looking for. Also I din't see any mention of shell spraying in your post. This seems to be a big factor in my tortoises and their level of pyramiding.

I don't raise them in small enclosures, but that might also be a factor. Lack of exercise.

What were you feeding? What "greens" I mean? They should be eating mostly weeds, leaves and succulents. Most people feed mostly grocery store foods.

I have discovered that you need to maintain humidity for as long as the tortoise is growing. It does not matter what age I move mine outside. If they are growing and its too dry, things get ugly.

You have some cosmetic pyramiding, but if all else is good and your tortoise is healthy, I would not say you've failed. All of the above is merely to point out things you might have been able to do better, and explain what might have gone less than perfect for you.

 

[Neal]

When you soak her, do you ever splash her shell?

 

[sopo]

Thank you. I did mist a lot but not as much lately. Yes, I do splash her shell several times while she soaks and she soaks anywhere from 20 minutes to close to an hour a day. And yes, mostly grocery store greens so that may be part of it, it's a mix of all sorts of greens. I put her outside some but she doesn't like it. And she doesn't eat grass when she's out. I know years and years ago, it was thought that diet was more of the cause of pyramiding. I had a sulcata back then, kept in not humid conditions and she did not pyramid this young. She did eventually by the time she was 5 have some though. So frustrating.

 

[sopo]

Also, I just thought of something, she's been having some fast growth. It's like she's an eating machine lately. Could that have anything to do with it?

 

[Zamric]

Might I suggest Vita-Shell? It will help with smoother growth even with an open top. I have 2 leopards, one is 3 and the other is 2.5 years both were raised in Hot /Humid closed chambered conditions during the winter months but full time outside in the Summer and Texas is known for its hot/dry days in the Summer.

 

[Neal]

The fast growth shouldn't have an influence on pyramiding if the tortoise is kept well hydrated. Would you be willing to share some pictures of your set up?

 

[sopo]

Thanks for the info on vita shell, I will get some as soon as possible. Neal, I don't have a pic of it but is an Exo Terra terrarium. I have closed off the top with rubber type shelving liner taped to keep humidity in with holes cut out around the light fixtures. There is a uvb light and a basking light as well as a black light for night time. I use coconut fiber substrate kept moistened. I have two ceramic tiles (one under basking light and one for food). I have a plant pot dish (can't remember what they are called) sunken for water and a hidey home. Like I said, according to the gauge, humidity is at 80% right now.

 

[Tom]

I suspect your issue is the your bulbs. Basking bulbs really dry out the carapace which is what cases pyramiding. Your temps may be good, but in such a small enclosure, your tortoise doesn't have a lot of space to get out from under the desiccating bulbs. To add to problems of the daytime bulb, you are using another incandescent desiccating bulb that is on all night. So your tortoise is under the effects of desiccating IR-A wavelengths 24/7. Add to all of this that your lights are outside the enclosure on top, which creates a chimney effect, and how you arrived at the place starts to become more clear. I don't know where in the enclosure or how you are measuring 80% humidity, but that doesn't seem likely given your set up. It might be 80% in one area away from the lights or something, but I really doubt its 80% all over. Even in my large closed chambers its not 80% near the heat lamps.

Here are the corrections I would suggest:
1. You need a very large closed chamber. This allows your tortoise to have the necessary basking spot, but allows a lot of room to escape the drying rays from basking bulbs. Also, because your temps will be more stable you can use a lower wattage, less desiccating bulb. Having the lights INSIDE the chamber will eliminate the chimney effect and over all humidity will be higher and more uniform.

2. Swap the black light out for a CHE on a thermostat. This will run a lot less and will reduce the desiccating effects. Plus your tortoise can have darkness at night which can only help.

 

[sopo]

ok, thank you. I have been hunting for a better larger closed chamber. The only person I know that might have helped me build one, is no longer an option. I found this on CL and like the size: 21 inches tall, 44 inches wide..

Do you have a link for a good CHE by any chance? and I'll get it ordered today.

 

[Tom]

Here is the brand I like, but any of them will do. You will likely need a 150 watt for that size enclosure or even better two 60 watters to spread the heat out.
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/30-pearlco-60-watt-ceramic-heater
I get my fixtures for my CHEs from Home Depot. They have an 11" dome, a ceramic base and a heavy duty cord for $12.

And I like these thermostats:
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

 

[Maro2Bear]

Hi Tom and others contributing to this thread. Just like good and bad thermometers, or hygrometers, can you all recommend one or two good thermostats that have a good track record?

Too funny. I just posted this and when I refreshed I saw that Tom had already answered my question. Thanks!

 

[Teodora'sDAD]

I know I will get my hand slapped, but I dont watch my humidity. I just make sure the walls of my enclosure always have condensation accumulating on them. The condensation builds up on the top and drips back down into the enclosure. I dont have to add much water, which is nice.

 

[Neal]

Just like good and bad thermometers, or hygrometers, can you all recommend one or two good thermostats that have a good track record?

I've been using this one for about a year: http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=260&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=5

You really can't go wrong with Zoomed. This has been working perfectly since day one.

 

[Maro2Bear]

I've been using this one for about a year: http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=260&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=5

You really can't go wrong with Zoomed. This has been working perfectly since day one.

thanks Neal. Appreciate your info very much.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I use the Hydrofarm digital thermostat. It's sold for seedling mats but it works just fine with a CHE. I've used 3 with no issues and I've recommended it to many others who also have nothing negative to say about it.

I've seen what Tom described first hand.
My Leopard was perfectly smooth at a year old. I'd raised him primarily in a humid chamber, but by this time he lived outside all day long. I decided to set up a mini closed chamber for his night quarters instead of using the bigger one.

It was a 10gallon, filled with coco coir, sealed on top and used only a 75 watt CHE plugged into a thermostat set for 80F. Sounds good..and space it was "fine" because it was just for sleeping.

Well as time went on I noticed only 2 scutes starting to pyramid...bad. My hydrometer read over 80%RH but it was apparently much less directly under the CHE...exactly where the 2 scutes started to spike. (In between the 3rd and 4th vertebral scutes)

Just as I was discovering this, Andy and Frances became involved in a pyramiding debate (Christmas time I think) and we learned the details about the IR-A rays. I concluded this mini chamber was actually creating a dry, desiccating hot spot and my poor guy had no where to go. So, I ditched the 10 gallon and set up a large tote chamber for his night time chamber instead....

...but that damage was already done. I now have a mostly smooth but 2 pyramided Leopard...
This is why I don't like high wattage bulbs/MVB. Even in a large set up, if the tort is under that hot bulb, it's going to affect the growth.

 

[Elohi]

Yeah, I really think the 100w mvb was he reason for the pyramiding in Beans. Although he still seems to have some, when it it correct itself? I have nothing close enough or high wattage enough to cause it and haven't for a long time.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

(oops, can't edit my post to add to it.. what happened to the 30min window??)

Even though he isn't under bulbs anymore, he still has his "pyramid spot" and it drives me crazy... You can see it better here in a recent photo

He still lives outside and sleeps locked up in a humid tort house but I can't fix it. No one ever can...Once it's there, it's there.
So, I think us with Leopard torts need to monitor our moderate to high humidity in ADDITION to the lighting and it's drying effects.