how to fatten them up for winter..

[MichaelaW]

As long as they are not severely malnourished, they should be perfectly healthy enough to through brumation safely. Turtles in the wild often survive the winter despite being almost emaciated. Based on the good care I notice you take with your Terrapene, I have a hard time believing they are underweight. It is better to err on the side of too little food than too much food before brumation, since they need to empty their gut completely before winter.

 

[turtlelou]

Sorry if this is ot but I have a wild baby boxie that I took inside last winter bc I found him hatched and cold at the end of September of last year. I have kept it as wild as possible, only threw in bugs for it to find and forage on. He lives in my veggies garden someday snow. But I was wondering if he is old/big enough to hibernate on his own this year? I don't think he can go in his shell and close yet. Is there anyway for me to hibernate him outside safely this winter?
Thanks

 

[ColleenT]

Sorry if this is ot but I have a wild baby boxie that I took inside last winter bc I found him hatched and cold at the end of September of last year. I have kept it as wild as possible, only threw in bugs for it to find and forage on. He lives in my veggies garden someday snow. But I was wondering if he is old/big enough to hibernate on his own this year? I don't think he can go in his shell and close yet. Is there anyway for me to hibernate him outside safely this winter?
Thanks

generally it is not recommended for babies to hibernate/brumate. often times baby turtles become food for other animals.

 

[mark1]

i think death and survival from hibernation is not an overly studied subject . from what little info i've seen on it , my take is the most likely cause of death during hibernation is running out of energy .... a small turtle will have less energy stores than a larger turtle , so , more likely not to survive ......... given two equal sized healthy turtles , the heavier of the two will have an advantage in surviving a mild to warmer than average winter , as during unusually warm spells during winter hibernating turtle will become active , which would be the only time they could actually use fat reserves ..... another advantage i could see is when you get an early warm up in spring followed by winter weather again , a turtle with more fat reserves would have more energy than one with little fat reserves , that energy would be a head start to a heavier turtle .... i'm pretty sure hibernating turtles rely on sugar stores to get through hibernation.......

 

[MichaelaW]

i think death and survival from hibernation is not an overly studied subject . from what little info i've seen on it , my take is the most likely cause of death during hibernation is running out of energy .... a small turtle will have less energy stores than a larger turtle , so , more likely not to survive ......... given two equal sized healthy turtles , the heavier of the two will have an advantage in surviving a mild to warmer than average winter , as during unusually warm spells during winter hibernating turtle will become active , which would be the only time they could actually use fat reserves ..... another advantage i could see is when you get an early warm up in spring followed by winter weather again , a turtle with more fat reserves would have more energy than one with little fat reserves , that energy would be a head start to a heavier turtle .... i'm pretty sure hibernating turtles rely on sugar stores to get through hibernation.......

Turtles rely on glycogen, which is stored in the muscles and the liver, to survive the winter. Glycogen is a sugar, so you are right, Mark. So it is important that a turtle is not malnourished in order that it's muscles and liver will be healthy enough to supply this nutrient to the body.

 

[mark1]

glycogen , i have to wonder if that has anything to do with why they don't freeze ? as while i don't know , but i seriously doubt my turtles get even close to below our frost line .

 

[edwardbo]

Mark 1 , I have fretted about this for years ,I think it was you that put up a chart with winter temps and frost lines, I also doubt that they go that far down. I have found box turtles with their carapace exposed in early spring that have survived and grew faster than other better hidden boxies .im thinking they can can " freeze " as long as they don't get freeze dryed . There is a video by national geographic that shows hatchlings freezing in the nest ,then thawing out and digging out none the worst .is this so for box turtles?...Yvonne mentioned that they can freeze but the context could have meant " they can freeze " to death, I was confused . I've also heard stories about box turtles freezing in body's of water and surviving with no issues .what is the definitive answer?.... Could Chris Leone add his broad and expert observation with regard to garden states large and varied collection ?

 

[edwardbo]

Another point is that hatchlings winter over in the nest ,I can't imagine a female digging over 3 feet down to lay her eggs, how do we cold winter tort keepers interpret this info into our husbandry?.

 

[MichaelaW]

Box turtles use the cryoprotectant, glucose, to keep from freezing. A cryoprotectant prevents body tissues from being harmed by freezing temperatures. Interestingly, Chrysemys picta does not produce cryoprotectants, which is why their bodies completely freeze during the winter. Very interesting topic. Let's keep this going!

 

[mark1]

Eastern Box Turtles—Frozen Alive!
https://answersingenesis.org/reptiles/frozen-alive-eastern-box-turtles/

When a box turtle begins to experience chillier temperatures, its liver releases lots of glucose (a simple sugar) into the bloodstream. The sugar is then concentrated in various organs and acts as a sort of biological antifreeze. The places that are the most protected are the liver, heart, and blood serum. The brain and eyes are also filled with glucose.

 

[MichaelaW]

Eastern Box Turtles—Frozen Alive!
https://answersingenesis.org/reptiles/frozen-alive-eastern-box-turtles/

Very cool!

 

[edwardbo]

I guess that's that .

 

[mark1]

do all turtles have this adaptation ? is it equally as efficient in turtles that come from warmer climates ? anyone kept florida box turtles outside year around in the northern most part of the country ? there are turtles that are adapted to salt water , could all turtles survive in salt water ?

 

[edwardbo]

I have "pure" Louisiana gulf coast box turtles that hibernate in New England without any problem at all .i was told by an expert that their large body mass was beneficial to a long winter sleep .
My yellow foots are happiest at temps that seem to me uncomfortable ,a species that doesn't seem to have many fans ,they are at their best with deep cover,dappled sun light ,shy but interesting...they perish in the slightest chill.

 

[edwardbo]

Mark 1 ,it would be interesting to see if intergrades w/ Florida inherited the metabolism to winter over ,we will wait to see if anybody answers the Florida box hibernation question.......

 

[MichaelaW]

Chris Leone brings his Florida's indoors for the winter; however the gulf coast spend it outdoors just fine.

 

[MichaelaW]

do all turtles have this adaptation ? is it equally as efficient in turtles that come from warmer climates ? anyone kept florida box turtles outside year around in the northern most part of the country ? there are turtles that are adapted to salt water , could all turtles survive in salt water ?

It looks as if all turtles possess cryoprotectants, but only to a certain extent depending on the species. For example, turtles from warmer climates have not adapted to producing the amount glucose necessary for cold temperatures.