How NOT to care for a captive bred tortoise

[Yvonne G]

I most sincerely apologize. On the other thread Tim said that he got the picture from another member who had contacted Tim asking about the tortoises in the picture, as they were being offered either for sale or trade. It wasn't from another site as I stated, it was evidently from either a PM or email from another member.

And this has to do with the original subject of this thread how?

Don't mix species. A school of thought, not a hard, fast rule. Lots of people do it. I don't believe in it.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

It would be nice if we could just see the thread to determine for ourselves what to make of all this brewhaha.(?). I, for one, would love to be able to read it and determine for myself if it is vital for the care and longevity of said tortoises. However, I don't understand what the big deal is about sharing safety precautions for the tortoises. It might be of good use to all of us. On the other hand, I don't see why everyone is jumping all over Tim, either. He is obviously passionate about how his and others, posts were moved so no one can benefit from the information contained in it. There are some things that I feel strongly about on this forum, myself, that have gone against forum rules and been allowed to stay, so I can understand people's frustration on how some things are handled.

 

[harris]

I most sincerely apologize. On the other thread Tim said that he got the picture from another member who had contacted Tim asking about the tortoises in the picture, as they were being offered either for sale or trade. It wasn't from another site as I stated, it was evidently from either a PM or email from another member.

And this has to do with the original subject of this thread how?

Don't mix species. A school of thought, not a hard, fast rule. Lots of people do it. I don't believe in it.

This is why I have and will always have the utmost respect for this woman. If more of us would acknowledge the fact that we're wrong sometimes, things here could be much smoother. No one, including the small handful of ones with vast experience are 100% right, 100% of the time. There is no such thing as perfection. We will learn something new until the end. And Barb, your post #17 is dead on. Why, with almost 20,000 members on this forum, why would someone want to willingly withhold information that could potentially benefit others. If I'm doing my math correctly, that's a MINIMUM of 20,000 tortoises (and turtles) in captive care.
By the way I'm a member of POOP. People Offended by Offended People. Now let's get it together before the only criteria here will be species specific.

 

[Yvonne G]

Rose: There was a very important message in Tim's posts, however, he grossly violated the first rule of the forum:

1. Do not post anything blatantly rude and/or insulting.

He has no one to blame for the thread being removed but himself. If he had been more polite about the way he tackled the subject this whole thing would not have happened. And then redfootsrule had to jump into the frey and the whole thing just got totally out of hand.

And now PLEASE!!! This thread is supposed to be about how to NOT care for captive bred tortoises.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I agree completely, Yvonne, the rules are here for a reason. We do not and should not be purposely divisive. If we are it should be removed. That should apply to everyone. If Tim was purposely divisive you should remove his post.

Having gotten that off my chest, I don't think the mixing of species is a good idea. Tom had put it very eloquently in past posts. If you do a search, you will be able to decide for yourself if you want to take the risks. If you do, it is your decision and it is up to you. It is unfortunate, especially, if it is a rare breed. Still, it is up to you to determine how you care for your tortoises.

What other pertinent information do you have for us on how not to care for tortoises?

 

[EricIvins]

Please forgive my ignorance as I am not involved in import/export but does USFW culture for Mycoplasma or Herpes as part of their routine evaluation?

Intestinal parasites would be pretty far down on my list of concerns as they are easily treated. However, problems like Mycoplasma or Herpes would be essentially impossible to deal with...

I see the issue here, but those Stars are not wild caught. They are European bred animals, which are not full of parasites and are no different than any other captive bred Tortoise. How do I know? Because USFW has taken fecals from these animals ( Same with Hermanns ) to prove or disprove whether they are laundered, Illegal animals........Semantics yes, but mis-information also.......

What they are actually testing for, and how they test is confidential information. No one is going to blurt that out, otherwise these groups can treat illegal animals for whatever they are looking for which defeats the purpose of testing them to begin with......

What they are actually testing for, and how they test is confidential information. No one is going to blurt that out, otherwise these groups can treat illegal animals for whatever they are looking for which defeats the purpose of testing them to begin with......

There seems to be much information not in direct evidence here.

Eric wrote that " 'those' Stars are not wild caught. They are European bred animals" Ok, so how do you know that Eric, did you import those stars yourself, or have some special contact to know those stars exact history?

That image in this threads OP, where did it come from? Google images, and old FaunaClassified or Kingsnake.com ad? Do you know the person and they sent it to you. Do you have subsequent information on the outcome of the potential disease transmission? That would be clearly a strong argument for the thread title "how NOT to care for a captive bred tortoise" don't you think?

Again I agree mix and match WC with CB is no good, or different species. As I said I don't even mix same species to a great extent, until some long belabored quarantine. When I use store bought greens I buy organic, and still wash them anyways. I don't harvest greens (weeds) from parks or mystery patches on 'nature' walks not because of concern for pesticides, but all the dogs that urinate on everything, and birds who do carry crossover disease leaving their defecation everywhere. A past friend considered me a pet projected hypercondriac, perhaps so.

All those people and their grubby hands touching animals at trade shows creeps me out, and so I always try to buy first day in the first hour, just because of that.

I've seen the images of <https://sites.google.com/site/tortugainnsuites/> the OP's web page. Could you all give us a rundown of your day to day bio-security as you work one enclosure to the next? What's your process of feeding/cleaning, in terms of 'in your care duration' relative to order of care on a day to day. Valuable guidance like that would probably be welcome.

Will

There are only two sources that the 4" Stars come from. Many people bring them in from those sources, but that is the extent of it......Besides, catching 100's of 4" Tortoises just doesn't happen. That is still the size/age where they have a tendency to disappear in the wild........

Farming Tortoises is fairly easy compared to other things. Redfoots, Hermanns, Radiateds, the Stars, and a few other species are now being produced in fair numbers now......There are a few Asians that are producing thousands of Radiated hatchlings a year. They are the Asian "Sulcata".......

 

[Tim/Robin]

Tim/Robin said

"No I will NOT, suffice it to say it works. That is top secret information that only a select few are privied to know!!"

WHAT???

That speaks such huge volumes in the context of all this.

Did you really say that on this thing called a forum, for tortoises?

I'm overwhelmed by this statement and all the apt deletable things that could be objectively said in response.

That's it for me on this thread.

Will

Ahh, rhetoric lost in written words. Not to mention that would be going WAY off topic and might get deleted!

---

I wonder if they really care or do they just want to argue.

You clearly do not know me or have not been around long enough to know how I am. ANYONE who has ever asked me for help with Pyxis has been bombarded with assistance. Short of my family, I care for NOTHING more than this fantastic species!

---

Rose: There was a very important message in Tim's posts, however, he grossly violated the first rule of the forum:

1. Do not post anything blatantly rude and/or insulting.

He has no one to blame for the thread being removed but himself. If he had been more polite about the way he tackled the subject this whole thing would not have happened. And then redfootsrule had to jump into the frey and the whole thing just got totally out of hand.

And now PLEASE!!! This thread is supposed to be about how to NOT care for captive bred tortoises.

Accepted!

 

[Tim/Robin]

I see the issue here, but those Stars are not wild caught.

For the record, I the OP, did NOT call them wild caught. I said recent imports!!! Semantics yes, but equally important!!!

 

[EricIvins]

I see the issue here, but those Stars are not wild caught.

For the record, I the OP, did NOT call them wild caught. I said recent imports!!! Semantics yes, but equally important!!!

But then you went on to say how they aren't going to do well and are infested with Parasites. This implies that they are stressed out, wild caught animals that have been passed on from person to person. This is not the case. Carry on.......

 

[sibi]

At first, I didn't know if I wanted to be part of this discussion because of all the hurt feelings that still permeates throughout this thread. But, I was interested in the questions that arose from the original thread. Most of us get that species/subspecies that are imported and put together is never a good idea for the reasons already outlined. Now that we have this post to pick up from where the other was left off, I don't see the information forthcoming.

Tim, I know you have important information for us as tort owners, and for those of us who may one day try to purchase a Star tort, we'd like to know "what not to do with captive torts." I really wouldn't know the difference between a good breeder with reputable credentials from a backyard breeder who knows nothing about the torts he's selling. Maybe, there's a way I can be enlightened about that. It's a start, and it's a good way to try to preserve these magnificent creatures we all love.

 

[stinax182]

i feel that if he truly only put them together for a photo shoot (5 mins at most?) and hopefully didn't sit them down on poop that the amount of contamination that occurred could possibly be compared to the many times you might have forgotten to wash your hands in between caring/cleaning for different species? or using the same tub for soaks (at different times) ? i honestly do not know how easily such things can be caught so PLEASE correct me if i am wrong. i personally don't think it's a big deal when i forget to wash in between but i may be naive...

i just feel like people jumped to conclusions. but please correct me if I'm wrong and tell me to never forget to wash my hands again!