How NOT to care for a captive bred tortoise

[Tim/Robin]

There are many, many posts on how to properly care for a captive bred tortoise. I want to post this as a photo document of how NOT to care for a captive bred tortoise. NEVER EVER place a captive bred tortoise with a recently imported tortoise, especially NOT a recently imported Indian Star. They are known to be full of parasites and most die!!!

Maybe this won't get deleted!!!

 

[Len B]

How many species are together in the pic? I think I see at least 6.

 

[Tim/Robin]

How many species are together in the pic? I think I see at least 6.

Way too many!! The saddest part, as I posted in another MOVED/DELETED thread is that the Pyxis here are captive bred Pyxis arachnoides brygooi. They are very delicate and sensitive to disease. Even worse, there are ONLY 121 of them listed in the North American studbook!! YES 121!!! All but 32 of those are in zoos!! There may be others not listed, but those numbers are not too many!! These brygooi likely have been sentenced to death!!! Certainly sentenced to exhile.

 

[luvpetz27]

How many species are together in the pic? I think I see at least 6.

Way too many!! The saddest part, as I posted in another MOVED/DELETED thread is that the Pyxis here are captive bred Pyxis arachnoides brygooi. They are very delicate and sensitive to disease. Even worse, there are ONLY 121 of them listed in the North American studbook!! YES 121!!! All but 32 of those are in zoos!! There may be others not listed, but those numbers are not too many!! These brygooi likely have been sentenced to death!!! Certainly sentenced to exhile.

That's just heartbreaking. Makes me
feel sick!

 

[mctlong]

I'm counting five different species in that little box. At least one species may be wild-caught.

I'm currently raising a couple female platynotas for future breeding. If, after all the time and resources I've invested, their babies ended up in a situation like that, I'd be pissed beyond reason.

Its sad that the owner doesn't seem to realize the importance of the species in his care.

Has anyone tried to buy them back? Is it worth taking the chance of rehabilitating them with good dose of antibiotics, panacur, and closely-monitored isolation?

 

[EricIvins]

I see the issue here, but those Stars are not wild caught. They are European bred animals, which are not full of parasites and are no different than any other captive bred Tortoise. How do I know? Because USFW has taken fecals from these animals ( Same with Hermanns ) to prove or disprove whether they are laundered, Illegal animals........Semantics yes, but mis-information also.......

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

For what is may be worth, I agree wholly that the mix is not a good idea, even under a best circumstance, like they are all captive bred in one facility. But to assume that indeed some cross contamination did occur because it might have is a huge jump, and to further suggest/speculate on treatment without diagnosis is irresponsible.

I tend to go overboard myself by isolating individuals from each other of the same species from one purchase. Even if they were all imported together and the dealer housed them together, and shipped them together, I put them in groups of one, 'till I''m convinced they are all OK. It's easier in the long run for me, eating and defecation are easier to monitor, each fecal is 100% associated with an individual, etc. It's a system I am comfortable with.

I recently got a small group of leopards, all one clutch of eggs, and I have received and keep them in a group. But if the animal has much if any history prior to me getting it, I hold them in separate quarters 'till I'm feeling comfortable with them. That can be up to a year, never less than a month, often based on procrastination well after I find a lack of a problem. And I have not found myself in a situation where mixing species was warranted by my own standards (I fully acknowledge there can be good reason to do that).

But to carry on like something bad has RESULTED, from what most all of us would agree is a poor choice is overboard. I don't know the person who posted the image (originally), and perhaps in IM/PM you'all have sorted out more detail not posted here, for concern the moderator overlords deleting it, or moving off to some place for further debate among themselves. But to lambast that person is not the friendly, helpful, get along atmosphere so many of you cling to so tightly either. No matter who hurls an insult first or second etc.

If the person who posted the image had a long history of why species should be isolated via posts here, and then the produced that image, the word "hypocrite" would be a warranted objective observation. No doubt deleted by mods, but warranted.

One image is not evidence of disease transmission. Has that OP sought help for mystery illnesses of their animals many times, and "now you know why" kind of thing?

Being critical does not equal critical thinking.

Will

 

[wellington]

I did not see the other thread that has been removed for review. So, I don't know how the original op was handling him/herself about the care of these tortoises, or how the correct information was being suggested to him/her. Has anyone tried reaching out in a friendly, informative, concerned manner? Try to educate him/her in what he/she has and how important it is to take special care of them. How delicate they are and how endangered the species is? Again, I did not see the original thread. I just know that attacking in any way, just shuts people down. I have learned this myself. I am one to attack first when it comes to animal care. I have learned very quickly, the people I am attacking will just shut down, not listen, fights back and the care never gets across to them, as the agenda for them now is not the animal, but trying to prove they know more then you. If this person can still be contacted. I would suggest someone with lots of knowledge of this species kindly contact them and send them some hardcore facts. Offer to help them instead of attacking them. Again, I did not see the original thread. So I am not saying anyone did attack, just basing on the removal, some thing went bad there. So please don't attack me. Just an outside view.

 

[Weldd]

Please forgive my ignorance as I am not involved in import/export but does USFW culture for Mycoplasma or Herpes as part of their routine evaluation?

Intestinal parasites would be pretty far down on my list of concerns as they are easily treated. However, problems like Mycoplasma or Herpes would be essentially impossible to deal with...

I see the issue here, but those Stars are not wild caught. They are European bred animals, which are not full of parasites and are no different than any other captive bred Tortoise. How do I know? Because USFW has taken fecals from these animals ( Same with Hermanns ) to prove or disprove whether they are laundered, Illegal animals........Semantics yes, but mis-information also.......

 

[Yvonne G]

It's really not fair to the OP of the original thread to jump on him without hearing his side of the story. I don't know where Tim got the picture from, but in the other thread, the OP said he only put them together for the photo op. That he keeps each species in its own habitat. That he asked for and received care instructions from the person he bought the tortoises from.

Yes, if you see the picture and assume this is how they are kept, then we need to do some educating. But education using your own pictures, not pictures you've taken out of context from another site.

Everyone: Please remember!!! This is a thread warning us how to NOT care for captive bred tortoises. This is NOT a thread about jumping on another member, or assuming the other member's care for his tortoises. I think it was a poor choice for our OP of this thread to harvest a picture from another site and use it out of context.

 

[Tim/Robin]

I think it was a poor choice for our OP of this thread to harvest a picture from another site and use it out of context.

I think it is a poor choice that you ASSUME that I harvested this photo from another website and am using it out of context. The context has been very clearly explained and shown!! You have no clue!!! I AM NOT USING IT OUT OF CONTEXT!!!!!!
It was not harvested. The photo came DIRECTLY from the person who took the photo!!! There was no harvesting!!! Get your facts straight before slinging mud!!!

Again an explanation was given where the photo came from in the other TWO threads that have been deleted from our viewing pleasure!!

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I don't know anything about the other thread, but it seems to me that this could be solved by bringing back an edited version of the original thread. Take out the offensive parts and have it closed so there is no misinformation circulating around.

 

[Yvonne G]

Tim: In the other thread you "said" that the photo came fro a site where the OP was trying to trade the shown tortoises. You didn't give a link to the site, and we only have your word for where the photo came from. That's where I got my crooked facts - directly from your post.

Now, please...let's stop this arguing on this thread and get back to the subject at hand. Any more arguing will be removed.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

There seems to be much information not in direct evidence here.

Eric wrote that " 'those' Stars are not wild caught. They are European bred animals" Ok, so how do you know that Eric, did you import those stars yourself, or have some special contact to know those stars exact history?

That image in this threads OP, where did it come from? Google images, and old FaunaClassified or Kingsnake.com ad? Do you know the person and they sent it to you. Do you have subsequent information on the outcome of the potential disease transmission? That would be clearly a strong argument for the thread title "how NOT to care for a captive bred tortoise" don't you think?

Again I agree mix and match WC with CB is no good, or different species. As I said I don't even mix same species to a great extent, until some long belabored quarantine. When I use store bought greens I buy organic, and still wash them anyways. I don't harvest greens (weeds) from parks or mystery patches on 'nature' walks not because of concern for pesticides, but all the dogs that urinate on everything, and birds who do carry crossover disease leaving their defecation everywhere. A past friend considered me a pet projected hypercondriac, perhaps so.

All those people and their grubby hands touching animals at trade shows creeps me out, and so I always try to buy first day in the first hour, just because of that.

I've seen the images of <https://sites.google.com/site/tortugainnsuites/> the OP's web page. Could you all give us a rundown of your day to day bio-security as you work one enclosure to the next? What's your process of feeding/cleaning, in terms of 'in your care duration' relative to order of care on a day to day. Valuable guidance like that would probably be welcome.

Will

 

[Jacqui]

No where really. Perhaps I was fishing for a laugh or trying to lighten the mood a bit. This thread is getting chippy...

Thanks for the try.

 

[Tim/Robin]

Could you all give us a rundown of your day to day bio-security as you work one enclosure to the next?
Will

No I will NOT, suffice it to say it works. That is top secret information that only a select few are privied to know!!

---

Tim: In the other thread you "said" that the photo came fro a site where the OP was trying to trade the shown tortoises.

NO I did not!! IF either of the threads were visible, all could see what exactly I said. I NEVER SAID anything about it being on a site!!! Incorrect information again. Now break up the "girls club" moderation and let the threads stand.

 

[wellington]

Jeez guys, grow up.

I couldn't have said it better Cow1!

I don't get your statement above. Cow1 was referring to you and others. I also don't understand this comment of yours. (No I will NOT, suffice it to say it works. That is top secret information that only a select few are privied to know!!) If you have such a bio-security regimen as Will asked that works, why wouldn't you want to share it.
So glad Tom and others were willing to share their findings/regimens.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Tim/Robin said

"No I will NOT, suffice it to say it works. That is top secret information that only a select few are privied to know!!"

WHAT???

That speaks such huge volumes in the context of all this.

Did you really say that on this thing called a forum, for tortoises?

I'm overwhelmed by this statement and all the apt deletable things that could be objectively said in response.

That's it for me on this thread.

Will

 

[wellington]

Tim/Robin said

"No I will NOT, suffice it to say it works. That is top secret information that only a select few are privied to know!!"

WHAT???

That speaks such huge volumes in the context of all this.

Did you really say that on this thing called a forum, for tortoises?

I'm overwhelmed by this statement and all the apt deletable things that could be objectively said in response.

That's it for me on this thread.

Will

I am as shocked and dumb founded as you are Will. It's unbelievable.

 

[wellington]

I can't talk for Will and I don't know if he will come back on this thread. However, I took Wills second to last post to question if everyone caring for this limited species takes the precautions needed when, cleaning, feeding, watering, etc. Which if the highest level of caution/cleanliness is not implemented, the cross contamination is happening even without housing them together. That's my take on it. Which in turn very much so, relates to the assumed care of the tortoises in the original thread. Again, this is all from what I have been gathering from this threads op and their other thread. From their response to Will. I wonder if they really care or do they just want to argue.