How do you know they've had their fair share?

[Bbcatcher]

Hello all-

I have 2.3 Russian tortoises split into 1.1 and 1.2 in outdoor enclosures.

I've read on caresheets to either feed them once a day for 20 minutes or every other day for 60 minutes.

While sitting out there watching them eat, I notice that some of the tortoises don't eat as much in the 20 minutes as the others, usually because they're just slower, or smaller.

My question is how do I know when the ones who eat slower are getting their share of the food?

Also- the trio is fairly smaller than the pair; should I be giving them a little more time to eat since they're still growing?

 

[wellington]

Forget what you read. Feed them everyday and leave it there all day or until the next morning. If they eat it all, give them a little more.

 

[Bbcatcher]

Forget what you read. Feed them everyday and leave it there all day or until the next morning. If they eat it all, give them a little more.

Ok thank you. Have you ever fed pumpkin to them? I read that feeding it every so often is good for them?

 

[tortdad]

They will walk away when full. I haven't done he pumpkin thing yet but will this fall when they're in season. Mine loves squash and zucchini, both the fruit and the leaves/flowers from them so I know he'll love pumpkin.

 

[Bbcatcher]

They will walk away when full. I haven't done he pumpkin thing yet but will this fall when they're in season. Mine loves squash and zucchini, both the fruit and the leaves/flowers from them so I know he'll love pumpkin.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't feeding them too much. I had to give them extra yesterday because they scarfed down what I put out for them.

I'm pretty sure I saw some little pumpkins the other day either at the store or the produce stand so I'll check it out. I'll try other squash too.

I've tried giving radishes before and they wouldn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Tom]

In a large outdoor enclosure, you should feed them as much as they want of the right foods. Weeds, leaves, cactus pads, etc. In that circumstance, they really can't eat too much.

 

[Bbcatcher]

In a large outdoor enclosure, you should feed them as much as they want of the right foods. Weeds, leaves, cactus pads, etc. In that circumstance, they really can't eat too much.

So keep food in there constantly? If I go out and there is no food, put more in there?

 

[Tom]

I just feed a great big pile each day. If they leave some by the end of the day, I feed a little less the next day. If they eat it all up in the first 20 minutes, I'll put out much more. I don't like to waste any, but tortoise graze all day out in the wild. With a large well planted enclosure and lots of room for exercise, I see no reason they should be able to graze freely all day in captivity either.

 

[Bbcatcher]

I just feed a great big pile each day. If they leave some by the end of the day, I feed a little less the next day. If they eat it all up in the first 20 minutes, I'll put out much more. I don't like to waste any, but tortoise graze all day out in the wild. With a large well planted enclosure and lots of room for exercise, I see no reason they should be able to graze freely all day in captivity either.

Makes sense to me! I'll make sure to feed them a little more then, because they eat the amount that I give fairly quickly.

 

[FLINTUS]

Hmmm... sorry to say that I disagree with some parts of some comments above. In the wild, Russians only eat for 3-4 months a year, when yes, food is in ready supply and they can graze all day. But during this time, they eat all they can eat and more, they don't stop when they're full, so that they have fat reserves for hibernation during the cold and while aestivating during the warm, dry summers when food is in short supply. As a result, Russians don't really have an idea of 'self-control.' They will eat anything and everything, and this is why SO MANY of them are grown way too fast in captivity. With them, it is a completely different situation to a tortoise such as a Sulcata or Indian Star. Too fast growth can lead to a number of problems, including a too dense shell causing too much weight on bones that cannot take it. If other aspects of care are wrong-notably hydration and humidity, diet and lighting and temperatures,- it will also contribute to pyramiding. Generally, fast growth is also very weak at first, so the shell is more fragile in some places. While I wouldn't feed within a certain time period, feeding all they can eat throughout the day only works if they are relatively inactive for the other 3/4 of a year, so be very careful monitoring the growth and weights of the tortoises. Just my opinion, but hope it helps.

 

[Bbcatcher]

Hmmm... sorry to say that I disagree with some parts of some comments above. In the wild, Russians only eat for 3-4 months a year, when yes, food is in ready supply and they can graze all day. But during this time, they eat all they can eat and more, they don't stop when they're full, so that they have fat reserves for hibernation during the cold and while aestivating during the warm, dry summers when food is in short supply. As a result, Russians don't really have an idea of 'self-control.' They will eat anything and everything, and this is why SO MANY of them are grown way too fast in captivity. With them, it is a completely different situation to a tortoise such as a Sulcata or Indian Star. Too fast growth can lead to a number of problems, including a too dense shell causing too much weight on bones that cannot take it. If other aspects of care are wrong-notably hydration and humidity, diet and lighting and temperatures,- it will also contribute to pyramiding. Generally, fast growth is also very weak at first, so the shell is more fragile in some places. While I wouldn't feed within a certain time period, feeding all they can eat throughout the day only works if they are relatively inactive for the other 3/4 of a year, so be very careful monitoring the growth and weights of the tortoises. Just my opinion, but hope it helps.

But if they're outside all year and actively roaming around won't they basically burn it all off?

 

[FLINTUS]

But if they're outside all year and actively roaming around won't they basically burn it all off?

Not quite as Russians are 'programmed' to eat more calories than they burn off due to them needing a big fat supply, but an outside pen will help as they have some space to roam-but bare in mind it is still a fraction of what their wild territory would be. If he's outside in a pen with a good variety vegetation, leave them to graze, don't add any extra stuff except for supplements, and just monitor them carefully. If you start seeing thick white growth lines being there nearly all the time, that's generally a sign of excessive growth.

 

[Tom]

But if they're outside all year and actively roaming around won't they basically burn it all off?

Yes they will, and yes they do. There are several people that say the stuff Flintus explained above, but the problem with their theories and assertions is that their predictions of doom and gloom don't come true. Russians raised and living outdoors, grazing on good weeds and high fiber foods, DON'T grow "too fast" (whatever that is) and don't exhibit any of the above listed scary sounding ailments.

Put a russian in a 40 gallon indoor tank, feed it lettuce everyday, use rabbit pellets for substrate, and use a regular light bulb for heat, and THEN you will see the above listed maladies.

 

[wellington]

Also, in my opinion, you have to learn your torts habits. My Russian doesn't eat much. I actually throw a lot,of his food away. Then there are some days, he eats everything I put out. Because in the wild, they do have the option to graze all day, I make sure he has food all day. He also is able to graze if he wants.
I know that dogs and torts are not alike, but I have always free fed my animals and never had an over weight animal. On the other hand, my cousins feed their animals once a day, and they always have over weight animals. In my experience, free feeding doesn't make an over weight animal. However, that's my experience and there are always exceptions to every rule.

 

[Tom]

I don't like the way my above post sounds. I mean no disrespect toward Flintus, quite the opposite, but much of the "old school" info like what he illustrated has just proved to not be true, even though it is often repeated and in theory sounds reasonable.

I also read all the old books and I too used to say that stuff, but time and experience has disproven much of the old info. I just try to share what I have learned here in an effort to help people and their tortoises.

Apologies to Flintus for the above post sounding too... dismissive or disrespectful.

 

[Bbcatcher]

I think what I'll do is just learn my tortoises' patterns and then go from there.

They do stop eating sometimes and there are left overs that I throw out but for the most part they are devowering what I put in with them. I don't give them a lot to be honest, just enough to make sure they can finish it

 

[FLINTUS]

Yes they will, and yes they do. There are several people that say the stuff Flintus explained above, but the problem with their theories and assertions is that their predictions of doom and gloom don't come true. Russians raised and living outdoors, grazing on good weeds and high fiber foods, DON'T grow "too fast" (whatever that is) and don't exhibit any of the above listed scary sounding ailments.

Put a russian in a 40 gallon indoor tank, feed it lettuce everyday, use rabbit pellets for substrate, and use a regular light bulb for heat, and THEN you will see the above listed maladies.

Tom your post didn't sound disrespectful at all btw, but I do still disagree with you(to some extent). They don't burn it all off. As I already explained, Russians have a mindset of 'eat all', in order to conserve fat for hibernation and aestivation.
Look on this forum, especially in the 'newbie' section(no offence guys as obviously it is a big learning process), and I guarantee you that there will be examples of Russians with that typical thick white growth bands, which is generally weaker growth, and as I said, can lead to problems with the shell being too heavy for the body to put it simply, which then causes joint problems in more serious cases. You are correct in the fact that fast growth is not a direct cause of pyramiding, but it will cause more problems with pyramiding if other elements are 'not right.' There is quite a lot of evidence to back-up problems with fast growth, if it is of an unhealthy kind. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my original post, if your tortoise is growing quickly with good, smooth growth which aren't those nasty thick white lines, then that's probably fine, it's not necessarily natural, but it shouldn't cause too many problems. But do bare in mind, that humans can still have problems if we eat all the right stuff, but just a lot of it, because our body does not need it and it is converted into fat, just like tortoises. However, I think a lot of people don't get their care spot-on for one reason or another, often not as a result of them but as a result of the choices of the tortoises, and that leads to some of the problems mentioned above, which we've seen a number of times before, and for that reason I would advise people to be cautious, and remember that they only eat for 3-4 months a year in the wild. By at least hibernating in the winter, that will be a major help.
Btw, if you're interested for most of the year-aside from a month or so over winter where I feed every 2 days, to mimic natural behavior- I feed my tortoises every day unless outside grazing, like Tom, giving them a big pile of food, but I do watch growth, and if I start to see thicker white lines appearing, I give slightly less food, in case my care is not good, or they choose the wrong options. This has produced smooth growth, but we are talking about tropical tortoises which will generally eat everyday-although they will have to work much harder for their food than in captivity-, which is a different situation to Russians.
Hopefully this clears up my thoughts on the matter,
Ben

 

[Bbcatcher]

Thank you for your replies.

This set is my first go at tortoises, as I have always been more of a lizard person; but now I know the errors of my ways!!

I will monitor their growth and pay very close attention to make sure I don't see any white growth lines.

In the event I do see this, how can I correct it? Just feed less food? If I catch it fairly early, will that eliminate any risks that come along with fast growth?

 

[FLINTUS]

Yes, small white growth lines are fine, when you see them just 'be aware' and make sure all the care is good at that time. Maybe up the humidity a bit, and add in a few more soaks to help smooth shell growth.

 

[Bbcatcher]

Ok thank you!!