Hibernation

[Billy6789]

Hi, I have a 5 year old Hermann Tortoise and every year he starts to hibernate around Sept through to April. Because he's so young we've not let him fully hibernate but this year he was very late slowing down around Nov time. He won't stay in his hibernation and quite often has come out of his house, wandering around in a daze. We pick him up, put him back and that's him for a few more days. We live in the UK and have had a very mild winter this year, wet and rough but mild, could that be to blame? the pic is Steve beside his house.

 

[peasinapod]

At what temperatures are you hibernating him? How was the wind-down?

 

[Billy6789]

He's in the conservatory so chilly but depends on outside weather, also it's south facing so is warmer during the day. There really wasn't much of a wind down, he was eating less than usual but then just went to sleep for quite a while then kept waking up. He's in the same room he has always been but he's been too small to hibernate fully.

 

[cortney80]

Do you have to hibernate your hermann or do they just like to hibernate?

 

[ascott]

Sounds as though he just has not actually brumated....temps and light likely messing with him...especially if the weather is different than usual and the tort is young....just my take on the information provided here...

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Do you have to hibernate your hermann or do they just like to hibernate?

"No" to both questions...brumation is what they do if the weather conditions are not favorable, while eating, mating, and other tortoise activities are what they do when weather conditions are warm enough, so many of us bring our pets in during the cold part of the year, moving them back out once it warms up, never brumating them ever. And they really like eating, mating, and other tortoise activities a lot! In 40 years of tortoise-keeping, I've never had one try to go into hibernation as long as they were warm and had access to food.

There is a school of thought that we should keep our pets in absolutely "natural" conditions, but that thinking should also include feeding them only the naturally occurring flora of their native country (as opposed to indigenous weeds and produce from the market), giving each several acres to roam (as opposed to an nice enclosure in the backyard), allowing native predators - or importing their natural predators from their home country, if you want to take this idea to extremes! - to occasionally eat one or two (as opposed to building a safe place for them) and regulating their life span to how long they'd live in the wild (30 years or so, as opposed to up to 100+ as pets) through euthanasia...

Just as NONE of the above ideas are good ones for our pets, neither is the idea that brumating a tortoise is required or even desirable. They live happily without it, and, finally, not all pet tortoises survive brumation...unfortunate things DO happen while they're unable to respond to excess cold, to dehydration, to a disease that you didn't notice before brumation and, last and worse, to predators digging them up for a chew.

Things to think about before making the decision as whether to brumate or not.

 

[cortney80]

Thank you so much that is very helpful! I don't feel comfortable trying to get her to hibernate so I'll just keep her up and in warm conditions so it's never an issue! She seems very active so I don't think she's even trying to hibernate on her own or anything and she eats like a cow lol!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Thank you so much that is very helpful! I don't feel comfortable trying to get her to hibernate so I'll just keep her up and in warm conditions so it's never an issue! She seems very active so I don't think she's even trying to hibernate on her own or anything and she eats like a cow lol!

Happy to help.

 

[ascott]

Just as NONE of the above ideas are good ones for our pets, neither is the idea that brumating a tortoise is required or even desirable

Please keep in mind, this is one opinion and not all of us....please research and do make your own educated decision, not based on human emotion, but on research.....

 

[lynnedit]

I would bet the temps in the conservatory weren't cold enough to sustain brumation.
So go with your instincts; if she wants to stay awake, then keep her up.

In the future, you can elect to overwinter her inside (but in a heated room inside the house if the conservatory isn't heated).
Or, next year if she insists on winding down (unlike this year), you can opt to do a controlled brumation for a period of time.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Just as NONE of the above ideas are good ones for our pets, neither is the idea that brumating a tortoise is required or even desirable

Please keep in mind, this is one opinion and not all of us....please research and do make your own educated decision, not based on human emotion, but on research.....

Please keep in mind that every aspect of my tortoise keeping is based on 40 years of careful, well-thought-out research, Ma'am.

 

[cortney80]

Thanks I have done some research on it but I'll keep digging, I would rather not brunette her if it's not necessary!

---

Brumate not brunette hahah

 

[ascott]

Please keep in mind that every aspect of my tortoise keeping is based on 40 years of careful, well-thought-out research, Ma'am. Tortoise

Brumation is a part of the life cycle of a tort that has evolved over, well, alot of years and it has worked out very nicely thus far Sir

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Please keep in mind that every aspect of my tortoise keeping is based on 40 years of careful, well-thought-out research, Ma'am. Tortoise

Brumation is a part of the life cycle of a tort that has evolved over, well, alot of years and it has worked out very nicely thus far Sir

Brumation is indeed a part of the life cycle of a tort that that lives in the wild...mine, yours, and those of others here do not live in the wild, and no matter how much we may want to delude ourselves, we can never adequately reproduce wild conditions, and in a vain attempt to reproduce said wild conditions, our pets can often become ill or dead...just as brumating tortoises die in the wild sometimes.

ascott, your tortoises are no longer wild animals, your backyard is not anywhere nearly the size of their natural range, you cannot feed them the plants they ordinarily eat in their natural country, and, unless you make a lot of mistakes (including artificially forcing them to brumate), the odds are excellent that your tortoises will outlive wild tortoises by 2-3X times.

 

[ascott]

ascott, your tortoises are no longer wild animals

You are absolutely correct, I don't ever recall eluding to the silly notion that they are????

However, just because you take a tortoise from the wild does not mean the tortoise has become something else...it is still a tortoise, no matter how one tries to justify otherwise, period.

I read here that folks that have a tort that "naturally" (don't be confused with my reference here, naturally and in the wild two different things) brumates as part of their life cycle will "allow" the tort to remain outdoors and then when the weather begins to chill (not get cold, but chill) they will bring the tort indoors to an artificially heated/lighted enclosure by force (not the torts choice) to remain indoors...how is this letting the tort do what comes naturally to it??? It is not. I often laugh when I read about folks torts that even when brought indoors ---slow and go into a semi brumating state (I use semi because the human has once again interrupted)...

I do step in and bring the CDTs here indoors once the nights have hid 40 and lower, due to the torts are already not eating, not moving and when they hit their box (yes box) they hunker in and begin their beauty rest.....they could bump about and protest easily, but they protest none...I do this only because my property will flood if there are several days of rain nonstop....it is not these torts fault that some idiot human removed them from THE WILD, nor mine---I do what I do with them because that is what they know...and are driven to do...

Also, my goal is to not win some contest on if a tort will outlive a wild one...but my task is to not attempt to make the tort in my care be so out of sorts to simply comfort me...my goal is to buffer life between the NOW FORCED DISPLACED CDTs in my care to not suffer too much more at the mercy of a human....

Just my take.

---

.just as brumating tortoises die in the wild sometimes.

Also, too many times captive bred/housed torts also die in the comfort of the human made enclosures...all of the time....

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

.just as brumating tortoises die in the wild sometimes.

Also, too many times captive bred/housed torts also die in the comfort of the human made enclosures...all of the time....

Sure, if they're not kept warm enough (or kept too warm) or fed poorly...otoh, your tortoises will live much longer in captivity, particularly if not subjected to un-needed attempts to artificially "re-create nature", than wild tortoises.

Just because none of yours have died while brumating artificially doesn't mean it's never happened, and there's no real reason to risk it. Do your own research about brumated tortoises dying or being injured while doing so...the information is as close as your computer.

 

[ascott]

Just because none of yours have died while brumating artificially doesn't mean it's never happened, and there's no real reason to risk it. Do your own research about brumated tortoises dying or being injured while doing so...the information is as close as your computer.

Terry, I believe we have come to this impasse before on this topic...it is fair to say that this is the very reason that I always suggest to folks inquiring about the topic to please research both sides. Once research is done, and ongoing for that matter, then make a decision that suits their individual tort in care.

I make no claim to being an expert on this topic, nor has anyone else ever made enough of a list to convince me they are either....therefore, I will do as I have before and simply agree to disagree with things that don't set well with me...

Billy6789, you have a species of tort that has this behavior deep seeded in him. You are the human caregiver for the tort. You are the only one who ultimately can decide what you educate yourself on and then decide what seems to work for you and the individual tort in your care. I only serve as to offer you the information I know based on my life experiences, no more, no less.

Do torts in the wild as well as in forced captivity die, yes they absolutely do--for a variety of reasons. Even torts kept under the best of conditions pass, such is life really.

This subject is always going to be a touchy, no sure fire answer subject. As it should be....disagreement brings new theories and answers.... Please enjoy your tort regardless of your choice to support or deny brumation....

Terry, as always, happy to engage from time to time with you on this subject