Hi, new owner with questions (Gopher, Sri-Lankan Star, and Elongated)

[Schlomo]

I recently got a few tortoises and needed to get some input on if I am doing everything correctly.

The three tortoises I have are:

• Gopher Tortoise
• Sri-Lankan Star
• Elongated

All three of them have been housed together and seem to be in good health. I currently have them in a 110 gallon tuff tub, but plan on purchasing a new enclosure for the gopher tortoise. I will need to take them to a vet to get checked out.

Some of the things I am planning to order:

• Waterland Medium Land Enclosure ($169.99, but shipping was $120!)
• Zoo Med Ceramic Heat Emitter - 150 watts
• Exo Terra Solar Glo UVB Bulb 160W
• Two 100w Night Time Bulbs
• Two 100w Daytime Basking Lights
• 5 Ceramic Heat Lamps
• 2 Heat Lamp Stands
• Programmable Power Strip
• Play Sand, Top Soil, and some Timothy hay for bedding
• Two Granite Corner Bowls - Large for water
• Two Ceramic low side croc dishes for food
• Reptisafe Water Conditioner
• Mardel Herpcare skin and shell treatment
• Reptivite Vitamin Powder
• Reptile Claw Clippers
• Mazuri Tortoise Diet

My Questions are:

1. Is there any thing else I should purchase for my setup?
2. The Gopher Tortoise has a "parrot" beak - is this something I can file down a bit myself or should I have a vet do it?
3. The star and elongated tortoise both had fairly long nails. I was able to clip the nails on the elongated tortoise, but can't really see the quick on the star tortoise, so I don't know where to clip them. How can you tell where you need to clip his nails?
4. Do I need to house the three tortoises separately even if they have already been housed together?
5. They seem to like Romaine, Green Leaf, and Red Leaf lettuce - is this an ok food source for them if I supplement with vitamins and the Mazuri tortoise diet? The star tortoise loves tomatoes and the elongated tortoise loves bananas - are these ok?
6. I live in Maryland and take the tortoises out for a walk whenever I can for about an hour a day. I live in a townhouse and don't have an enclosed backyard so I can't leave them out. I'm trying to get the biggest enclosure I can for them. Would the Gopher tortoise be better off at a rescue center where he could be outside? If so, do you know of anyone I could contact about taking him?

I had some more questions, but can't think of them right now. I've been doing some reading and have come to realize that it's much more difficult to care for these tortoises than I thought. I'm glad there's a forum like this to help people out.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[coreyc]

Welcome to the TFO Can you post a pic of your Gopher Tortoise beak ?
I would also separate them why take the chance of one becoming sick plus they have different needs
you should give them a variety of things to eat to

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Steve:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Even though the tortoises have been kept together, it is my opinion that they should be set up separately. Tortoises are solitary animals (as opposed to herd-type animals) and do better alone. I am not familiar with the type of care involved for any of those tortoises, but if they each have different requirements for health and safety, then it would be easier to provide that in separate habitats. You didn't say how big the tortoises are, but in my opinion even the large sized Waterland tub would not be big enough for three tortoises.

Also, if its at all possible, they should be set up outside. You would be surprised at how well tortoises do outside as opposed to indoors. Do you have a balcony?

 

[egyptiandan]

Welcome to the forum Steve

Can you post pictures of your 3 tortoises?

Danny

 

[Schlomo]

Thanks for the welcome. I was planning on having the Star and Elongated Tortoise in the 110 Gallon Tuff Tank and the Gopher Tortoise in the Waterland Tub. I'll try to get another Tuff Tank to separate them all.

emysemys - I do have a balcony, but it's pretty small. it's only about 3 feet wide and 14 feet long. I'm thinking about purchasing some sort of mat so they can hang out there when it's warm. I haven't done exact measurements, but my guestimates for carapace length - Gopher-10inches, Star-7inches, Elongated-8inches.

I'll try to get some pictures of them tomorrow along with the pic of the Gopher Tortoises beak.

 

[Schlomo]

Here are some pictures. After doing some more reading - it seems the Elongated tortoise has some irregular shell growth. There's a spot on his back that seems like he was injured when he was younger

 

[Kristina]

Oh my goodness. There is way more wrong than just the Gopher's beak.

First off, where are you located? How did you come across these tortoises? Any background on them?

They have not been well cared for. I see multiple signs of MBD, or metabolic bone disease. Don't panic though, we can help you get them set up so they can live healthier lives, but there is a lot of damage done that cannot be repaired.

They are very much not in good health. They are dehydrated, for one thing. Please make seperating them a priority.

 

[egyptiandan]

All 3 have some form of metabolic bone disease. The Gopher not so bad because it was already full grown when it was brought into captivity (the extra long beak is a symptom of MBD in adult tortoises). The beak on the Gopher will have to be trimmed. The Star a bit worse, because half it's growth was in captivity (it was originally wild caught at around 4 inches). The Elongated is the worst off because it is a captive born animal and the person most likely had it from a very young age. So seperate enclosures, good diets and some outside time and they will probably do pretty well.
The spot on the Elongated looks more like a small extra scute as opposed to an injury.

Danny

 

[dmarcus]

Poor tortoises, they are in some bad shape. I hope you will be able to get them healthy...

 

[Schlomo]

Trying not to panic Kristina! Need to read up a little on MBD - have never heard of that before. I got the Tortoises from an old couple whose son passed away a few years ago - they were his pets. They said the the Star and Elongated Tortoises are from Thailand and the Gopher Tortoise from a petshop. The ones from Thailand their son got about 12-14 years ago and the Gopher Tortoise about 10.

I will make sure to separate them all as soon as I get everything set up. I found a local vet listed on the forum and will give them a call to setup an appointment tomorrow. I've been soaking them in warm water every couple of days since I got them last week.

Egyptiandan - how can you tell if these were captive bred or wild?

 

[egyptiandan]

The petshop story on the Gopher probably isn't right as they have been protected in every state they occur in for longer than 10 years. He probably found it when in Florida 10 or so years ago.
Well the Star could have come from Thailand, not so sure about the Elongated. You need permits and licenses to import tortoises legally into the country, so unless he stuck them in his pockets (pretty hard with a 4 inch tortoise) and brought them in that way, he bought them from a dealer here in this country (possibly in Florida as there are plenty of dealers there and would make sense with him having the Gopher).
As to knowing if an animal is wild caught or captive born, that takes many years of looking at animals that you know where they came from. Tortoises with nicely grown shells and damage are almost always wild caught. Not all, but most captive born tortoises have some slight to major pyramiding and very little if any damage.

Danny

 

[Laura]

housing them properly on a balcony might be hard..
Dont house on Sand or hay
Red lettuce is one type that is good to feed.. but a Much better diet is needed for all three, and it will vary. Time to do some Major reading /homework.
Get them cuttlebones. Its a great source of calcium. buy them at any petstore in the Bird section. sometimes found cheaper in Bulk at some stores of feed stores.
I would get some Mazuri food made by Purina and see if they will eat that..
and ideally.. seperate enclosures. Thier needs are all different. Look for bookcases, old used ones are fine, lay it on its back, removed the shelves, might need plywood for support/base, line it with plastic, put soil or orchid bark for subtrate, water dishes ( they ALL need a reall good warm water soaking) hides, heat, lights, good food.

 

[Schlomo]

Yep - I really need to start reading up on these guys. I found this website on Star Tortoises: http://startortoises.net/diet.html. Are there any particular websites I should be looking at? I did order some Mazuri - just waiting for that to get here. Thanks for all your input guys. There's just so much to take in. I just hope I can take good care of them.

Danny - the Star being wild caught would probably explain why he is so timid. He poops and pees everytime I pick him up. Would have been very difficult to bring him over in a pocket, so your theory is probably right.

 

[Schlomo]

Got a hold of the vet this morning. Checkup is $72 each and beak/nail trim ranges from $18-$36. Fecal Exam is $39.50. First opening they have is next week.

I'll try to keep you guys updated on the progress just so I can get some feedback and make sure I am doing everything right. I should be receiving my Waterland enclosure and supplies next week. I will post pictures once I get everything setup.

 

[Turtle Guru]

well welcome soory foe being late on that but good luck on your tortise man
Pray to the LORD He Helps Everything

 

[Kristina]

It looks like you have an idea of how to get them set up, but here is a link to an article that may answer some more of your questions -

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...ive-or-Beginner-Tortoise-Owners#axzz1SqSp03R2

As far as feeding them, here is another link that will also help -

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...ises-The-Balanced-Diet-Revealed#axzz1SqSp03R2

They are definitely going to need a calcium supplement WITH Vit. D3 sprinkled on their food. I would more worry about getting the Gopher to the vet for a beak trim than anything else. PLEASE PLEASE do not let the vet talk you into a "vitamin shot." It is very often overdosed, and if Vit. A is overdosed it can cause the skin to slough off, and in severe cases the nails and beak to literally FALL OFF. As you can imagine, it is very painful. Don't be afraid to tell the vet that you do not want the shot. All their vitamin needs can be met through diet and it is an unnecessary risk.

Keep soaking them. I also agree to completely avoid the sand and timothy hay. It is too dry, and the sand can prove deadly. You need a substrate that will hold some moisture. Cypress mulch (you can use the big bags that you can buy at Home Depot, etc. for $3) or coconut coir would be better, even plain top soil. I use organic humus that I buy for less than $2 a bag at Home Depot. It holds moisture well and I can put plants directly in the substrate.

These are the other things I would AVOID purchasing -

Two 100w Night Time Bulbs
Two 100w Daytime Basking Lights
Play Sand, Top Soil, and some Timothy hay for bedding
Two Granite Corner Bowls - Large for water
Two Ceramic low side croc dishes for food
Reptisafe Water Conditioner
Mardel Herpcare skin and shell treatment
Reptile Claw Clippers

Adult tortoises do not need heat at night. You can just let the enclosure drop to room temp.

If you have the MVB, you don't need the basking bulbs. Besides, a regular 100W incandescent is the SAME THING, and you can get 4 for $1 anywhere else.

Already addressed the sand and timothy...

Those bowls are not going to be big enough. For water, go to Walmart or similar and get some large glazed terra cotta pot saucers. You can also use paint roller trays. For food, get a large slate tile from a store like Home Depot. Feeding on slate helps with beaks and nails too.

The water conditioner and shell treatment just flat out aren't needed.

I would skip the clippers as well, let the vet handle that. With proper care the nails won't get that long again, and you should not cut them until you have more experience anyway. You can do some major damage.

Hope all this helps!

 

[Schlomo]

Thanks Kristina. So regular tap water is ok for them?

For the bedding should I use a mixture or any of the ones you mentioned. I looked at the home depot side and found these - are these ok?:

Coconut Coir

Organic Humus Top Soil

I already ordered some of the other stuff, but at least I know what I don't need to spend money on now. I just can't wait to get everything set up correctly.

 

[Kristina]

Yes, regular tap water is fine. I live in town even, I usually treat the water that my aquatic turtles live in, because they live constantly submerged, but my torts do just fine without any additives to the water.

I would not use the peat, it is different from the coir and when it gets dry it is very dusty. There may also be some correlation between the acidity of the peat and problems with shell rot.

The top soil would be fine. You can use that straight or in a mix. The cypress works very well also - http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

This is the coir that I was talking about - http://www.google.com/products/cata...=AdYpTs-9OoKHsgLTk8GdCw&sqi=2&ved=0CC4Q8wIwAQ

I like using the topsoil with a layer of something else on top to hold more humidity in. For adult torts, I use cypress. For my babies I use long fiber sphagnum moss.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Welcome.

 

[Schlomo]

Here are some pictures of the Gopher tortoise after the vet visit today. They trimmed his beak and did some tests on him. They said he was really skinny. He seems to be eating fairly well now though. I'm still waiting for the Mazuri diet I ordered. In the meantime I've been feeding him a mix of collard greens, dandelion greens, and red leaf lettuce with some vitamins sprinkled on.

I should be getting the two Waterland Tubs i ordered early next week - they had to be dropshipped directly from the manufacturer. I ordered it a week ago, so I've been really anxious to get it and set up his enclosure.

When I got him I did contact a couple of Reptile Rescues to see if they would take him. I got an email from Southeastern Reptile Rescue in Georgia today. They are starting a Gopher Tortoise enclosure and can take him. I haven't had him that long yet, but have already started getting attached to him. I need to do what's best for him though and he would definitely he happy living outdoors in Georgia. My only concern is how I would get him there.