Help! Worried about my pancake!

[Chef]

So a couple weeks ago I noticed my male pancake tortoise was not eating everyday or at least every other day. I inspected him and gave him a soak which induced him to poop. This poop was different than before with sort of a jello looking substance around the normal white matter. His eye was also giving him trouble, and looking like it was shedding the skin around it. After he pooped he ate a ton and the eye looked normal within a couple days. I removed the humid hide box from his enclosure as I thought maybe the humidity was causing a problem and I've read that it's not necessary for his age (2 years).

So over the past couple weeks he's been active but only eating once or twice. I usually give him romaine lettuce but have tried giving him fresh dandelion greens and spring mix, but he won't eat anything but the romaine. Now yesterday I noticed both his eyes were stuck shut! He manages to move around a little bit but I think he's sick. Today one eye was open very little. Should I soak him to see if that helps? Not sure what's going on. Any advice would be appreciated.

Other information:
Enclosure is ~3ft by 1 ft. Screen top and wood sides with a plexiglass front.
Ceramic heat lamp on one end setup with a temperature control set to 78.
50w Exo Terra Sun ray metal halide bulb on the other side at 12 hours a day.
Various rocks on the bottom.

 

[taza]

Im sure a good warm soak would be good. I leave the rest to the more knowledgable.
Hope he is going to be ok.

 

[tortadise]

Dd you change the substrate at all recently? Does it stay 78 tops on that one side, or is that the cool side? I keep my pancakes ambient 82 at night and 100 plus during the day. Sometimes a bit cooler than 80s at night, especially in winter time. But sounds like he's not doing well, and if that's the warmest temp I'd jack it up to at least 90. Soak him yes, could add so,e bird vitamins in the water too.

 

[Chef]

Well the 78 is set that way because the probe is underneath a rock and the heat lamp heats the rock from above, I don't know 100% how hot it is but I know it's warmer than 78. The hot side has the 50w light above it for the daytime and it gets above 90. Then the ceramic heater stays on all night. So maybe a higher temp for night time too? I just soaked him and there is like a dried crusty on both eyes that softened up and was able to be rinsed off, so now both eyes are open and he's moving about a little more, but not touching the romaine. I didn't see the part about the bird vitamins but will try that next time I soak. Thanks for the help.

 

[tortadise]

Might try spraying them down once a day too with hot water. Seems too dry and dehydrated maybe. Since when he is soaked he gets much more active and eats so water seems to be the crucial need here. Bird vitamins are an assortment of vitamins in liquid form few drops per soak and should help boost any lacking minerals, or vitamins in him. It will at least help a speedy recovery.mid try to feed some spring mix or so something too. Romain isn't the best. I know that's all he eats. But they will come around. If he gos months without eating that's bad but a week or more is just fine. Try some kale, mine love kale.

 

[dmmj]

Not a pancake expert, ( except when eating the fluffy kind). I do know that eye issues are sometimes a symptom of a bigger problem. perhaps a cake expert can help further, but it could be a vit. A def., a RI starting, could also be a substrate issue.

 

[CourtneyG]

Your diet is very poor. Pancakes need a mix of greens and grasses. Try getting a spring green mix and Mazuri tort food and Zoomed Grassland tort food. Mix the dry peelers in hot warm to make a mush and then spread over the green leaves, have a mix like that for 3 to 4 days a week, and once a week just have greens with a light reptile calcium powder. Also I use a 160watt mercury vapor bulb from Exoterra, provides the right lighting and heat temps. Night temps can get cooler and not be a problem, but if he is not doing well night ambient temps shod be 82-84 till he gets better. Are his eyes sunken in the head at all? A pic of him and the enclosure will help me some more. Also the poop is not a problem really, jelly like substance around the poop is probably from the incorrect diet. Also what is the substrate?

Also skin around the eyes normally is the lighting is incorrect.

 

[dmmj]

Could jelly like substance on the poop, be a indicator of high parasite load?

 

[CourtneyG]

Not really, blood in poop is though, or if it is running. Slight jelly normally means there is not enough roughage, but if the whole pop is jelly like then that can be a concern for parasites.

 

[dmmj]

Would the dry skin around the eyes ( like it is shedding)be a humidity problem. Just trying to flush out some issues here

 

[CourtneyG]

No, it is more related to lights and incorrect diet. Torts don't shed like geckos(who have skin caps on the eyes if humidity is not good), so it is not a humidity related issue. Humidity related issues are more your shell things I.e correct growth, rot.

 

[Chef]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I bought the metal halide light for the amount of UVA and UVB absorption, and its consistency over time. I didn't even consider that it might not be good for a tortoise. Here is the one I bought: http://www.joshsfrogs.com/exo-terra-sunray-fixture-with-ballast-bulb-50-watt.html

A couple days ago I soaked him and he got his eyes open. There seems to be a kind of crust over them that needs to soften I guess. Yesterday and today the eyes were stuck closed again, so I soaked using the bird vitamins today. They opened up after I put him back in the enclosure.

I had a humid hide box in the enclosure with sphagnum peat moss inside that I kept wet, that's where he spent pretty much all of his time. I took it out when I noticed this problem because I wasn't sure if it was causing it or not.

I have Mazuri LS diet that he won't touch. I've tried collard greens, kale, dandelion greens and they might get a bite out of them, not usually. The romaine gets gobbled up.

SunRay metal halide bulb on left. Basic florescent across the top. Ceramic heat on temperature control at 78. Rocky substrate. No humid hide box.

Right after the soak with bird vitamins, eyes opened up better than they have in over a week.

 

[CourtneyG]

Get rid of the fluorescent light, that is probably causing a lot of his problems. This is the light I have on my tank and it works wonders for me. It is a 160watt Exoterra Solar Glo in a big metal dome with a ceramic fix at the top for high heat.

My tank is a bit crap right now, having a hard time finding slate stones in my area and the grass keeps dieing for some annoying reason or another and the succulents I plant in there they destroy them(non of the stores here sell any decent sized succulents, the larger ones they do sell are toxic unfortunately), so the tank is a work in progress.

For his eating issues mix the greens, a lot of his lettuce with the other greens and then over time start to remove the lettuce out of his diet. Once you have him eating the greens happily slowly start to mix on the mush mix of the Mazuri and grassland, this will be a slow endeavor, but he should start to eat right. My youngest pancake refused to eat her greens with Mazuri grassland mix, but she would eat Mazuri, so I started to slowly mix the grassland in the food and she happily eats her food now.

The rocky substrate needs to go though, a mix of top soil, coconut coir and a cup of reptile sand will help provide a nice substrate for him, you can also plant things in the stuff as well. If you do that see if you can get some Rolly Polies aka Pill bugs and throw them in there, they eat the poop, spilled greens, and any other insects that try to live in the soil as well and some earth worms or red worms.

What are your ambient temps, basking, warm side, cool side, night temps, and room temps during the day and night?

For a cheap eye treatment for home as well that works nicely, Rooibos tea(Amerikans call it red bush tea) get that and make the tea, leave the bag in, let it cool completely. Take a q-tip and gently rub his eyes with it, do this a few times a day until his eyes clear up. We have used it on kittens and other animals and it helps a lot, works great in children as well.

 

[CourtneyG]

They do not need humidity when they are adults, I doubt the box was an issue.

 

[Chef]

Ok fluorescent is off, aren't there a certain type of fluorescent bulb that is good for tortoises though? I read that it's good to have for ambient light in addition to a source of UV. I will redo the whole tank tomorrow when I have time.

So you have no extra source of heat? What is the distance from the Solar Glo to the floor? How hot does that basking spot get for you?

I found all my rocks in a creeks around my parent's house, and there's plenty more. I'd ship some if you wanted to pay for shipping! Flat rate box might work.

 

[JoesMum]

Ok fluorescent is off, aren't there a certain type of fluorescent bulb that is good for tortoises though? I read that it's good to have for ambient light in addition to a source of UV. I will redo the whole tank tomorrow when I have time.

So you have no extra source of heat? What is the distance from the Solar Glo to the floor? How hot does that basking spot get for you?

I found all my rocks in a creeks around my parent's house, and there's plenty more. I'd ship some if you wanted to pay for shipping! Flat rate box might work.

A tube type UVB should not be causing problems. They are absolutely fine. It is the compact type (sometimes called Coil bulbs) that are known to cause issues with eyes. I use tube UVB with Joe indoors. How old is the bulb? . They must be replaced every 6 months as they lose power. MVB lasts slightly longer, about 9 months I think, but still needs to be replaced regularly for the same reason.

 

[CourtneyG]

My basking spot is 109F, the area around it is 85-95F and the cool side is 78f. I have never heard the ambient light thing though, but my fixture is large enough to light the whole tank up. The light is close 9 or so inches off the ground.

Thanks for the slate offer(the stone weight will make shipping really expensive), I was told today of a store in the town next door that sells rough stone, hopefully I can get some there.

Make sure to keep up with the food mix and the Rooibose tea.

 

[CourtneyG]

I do not have any extra source of heat, I only turn a ceramic light on during night at winter, also the rooms ambient temp normally stays high 70s to low 80s.

 

[CourtneyG]

Might try spraying them down once a day too with hot water. Seems too dry and dehydrated maybe. Since when he is soaked he gets much more active and eats so water seems to be the crucial need here. Bird vitamins are an assortment of vitamins in liquid form few drops per soak and should help boost any lacking minerals, or vitamins in him. It will at least help a speedy recovery.mid try to feed some spring mix or so something too. Romain isn't the best. I know that's all he eats. But they will come around. If he gos months without eating that's bad but a week or more is just fine. Try some kale, mine love kale.

I hope you don't feed to much kale, kale has to much goitrogens in and to much can cause problems.

 

[CourtneyG]

I also re did my tank, still no rocks as of yet, but planted a lot of seeds. Earth worms help a air-rate and enrich the soil and Rolly pollies help eat left over organic items.