Help me with new heated outdoor enclosure pleae!

[Hallbomber]

So I take my two torts out of their heated home every morning and place them in their beautiful 6' by 6' enclosure on the grass with low water dish, hide, and some rocks for beak shaping. I now want to attach their enclosure to possibly a large dog house with insulation for them to retire into on their own at night. I wondered which dog house and how some people modufy them to add a CHE to the inside for warmth? I want to get started soon while it is summer time for them to adapt during warm months. Stella and Ruby say thanks in advance.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

What breed are Stella and Ruby?

 

[jjsull33]

I don't have links to it but Tom has some good threads on making heated outdoor sheds and the like.

 

[Hallbomber]

They are G.P.Pardalis and G.P.Babcocki hybrids.

---

Ya I've seen Tom's threads. I want to just modify a nice insulated dog house.

 

[Hallbomber]

Nobody has heated a dog house?

 

[Laura]

we built a wooden box, insulated the inside, covered it with plywood. I use a Stanfield heat matt and a CHE. The box has to be big enough to allow them room to get off the mat. Its not tall, so that isn't a problem heating it, the opening is covered with thick plastic and a blanket, they just walk thru.. the top can be removed as well.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

Sorry, been busy with our new guy arriving yesterday. I pulled up several that I am considering for you. depending on the temps where you are you might be able to get a hound heater and a dog house such as these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E2G49Q/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

and

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00028J1O6/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00176IJWM/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HSNXJY/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

You could put a door on it as well to seal them in at night. The insulation kit is supposed to be pretty rugged and I seem to recall another poster using them with little problem. I considered this set up but lining the inside with marine grade plywood just to be safe.

For mine, since he/she s a hatchling I went with a rabbit hutch with run from cconly (oddly enough called chicken coops only, but they sell other stuff??). My plan is to use this stuff for a year or so while the large built in enclosures can be planned out and built.

 

[Tom]

I've tried dog houses and plastic rubbermade sheds in the past and found them lacking, even in my mild climate. They are too thin, drafty and lacking insulation. What ends up happening is that the CHE runs all night and still can't keep it warm enough. The CHE, being a hot spot, does dry out the top of their carapace, and can cause shell damage. I recommend either a heat mat and overhead radiant heat panel, or a mini oil heater. Either one will do a better job than a CHE and will not harm your tortoise. Use a reptile thermostat to run either of these options. You won't waste electricity on a warm day, and it won't get too cool at night.

I know a dog house sounds so much easier and convenient, but in time, you will see that its not a very good option, like I did. I'm trying to save you the hassle and expense.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

I've tried dog houses and plastic rubbermade sheds in the past and found them lacking, even in my mild climate. They are too thin, drafty and lacking insulation. What ends up happening is that the CHE runs all night and still can't keep it warm enough. The CHE, being a hot spot, does dry out the top of their carapace, and can cause shell damage. I recommend either a heat mat and overhead radiant heat panel, or a mini oil heater. Either one will do a better job than a CHE and will not harm your tortoise. Use a reptile thermostat to run either of these options. You won't waste electricity on a warm day, and it won't get too cool at night.

I know a dog house sounds so much easier and convenient, but in time, you will see that its not a very good option, like I did. I'm trying to save you the hassle and expense.

Sounds like a good plan.

Like I mentioned, I am doing a modified hutch for short term and the Torts won't be spending the night for a few years and by then these will be long gone. The hound heater did look like a solid option though. I also looked at the panels with the radiant heat but settled in on the hound heater for the circulation feature. Do you happen to have experience with the hound heater? I've seen your threads with the radiant oil heaters and your enclosures look nice (I especially liked the underground setup).

 

[Tom]

Like I mentioned, I am doing a modified hutch for short term and the Torts won't be spending the night for a few years and by then these will be long gone. The hound heater did look like a solid option though. I also looked at the panels with the radiant heat but settled in on the hound heater for the circulation feature. Do you happen to have experience with the hound heater? I've seen your threads with the radiant oil heaters and your enclosures look nice (I especially liked the underground setup).

I have no experience with the hound heater, but I just looked at the website. Looks like a CHE with a built in thermostat and a housing. I'd just use an $11 dollar home depot ceramic based 11" dome and a $20 CHE on a $26 reptile thermostat. This will direct the heat down where we need it, and I'll guarantee the reptile thermostat will be more accurate and appropriate for the temps we want. I'd be surprised if the hound heater's thermostat went up to 85 or 90, since no dog would want it that warm.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

Like I mentioned, I am doing a modified hutch for short term and the Torts won't be spending the night for a few years and by then these will be long gone. The hound heater did look like a solid option though. I also looked at the panels with the radiant heat but settled in on the hound heater for the circulation feature. Do you happen to have experience with the hound heater? I've seen your threads with the radiant oil heaters and your enclosures look nice (I especially liked the underground setup).

I have no experience with the hound heater, but I just looked at the website. Looks like a CHE with a built in thermostat and a housing. I'd just use an $11 dollar home depot ceramic based 11" dome and a $20 CHE on a $26 reptile thermostat. This will direct the heat down where we need it, and I'll guarantee the reptile thermostat will be more accurate and appropriate for the temps we want. I'd be surprised if the hound heater's thermostat went up to 85 or 90, since no dog would want it that warm.

Thanks for checking it out. That's a good point about 85-90. They are vague on actual temps (likely on purpose). I figured I could use it for my dogs if it didn't do the trick. I'll stick with your experience though, as much as I like to experiment and try new things, sometimes it just isn't worth it.

 

[lynnedit]

I have a wood cold frame with an insulated polycarbonate lid, about 20" high x 4' x2'. The lid lifts up for maintenance. It has a soil base.
I use a hound heater for background heat with a basking light, 100w (for basking on rainy days). There are basking rocks and gravel inside as well. (I don't use a heat mat because the advice is not to with smaller tortoises; I assume they can overheat more quickly).
I am very pleased with the hound heater, but it is for Russians, so I am not trying to achieve 80-90d as background heat. However, it is very effective, and can easily get temps into the 70's (haven't pushed it further-it has never been set past medium), w/o much effort. I use a thermostat.
It seems very efficient. It installs on the upper side and has a heat shield over the top.
I think the radiant heat panels are a great idea, and when the hound heater fails, will consider one. Since it installs on the roof, if your roof opens, you have to make sure there is give in the cord.

Whatever you choose, insulation is the key. If you have a solid floor (better with heat mats), make sure you insulate that too.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for checking it out. That's a good point about 85-90. They are vague on actual temps (likely on purpose). I figured I could use it for my dogs if it didn't do the trick. I'll stick with your experience though, as much as I like to experiment and try new things, sometimes it just isn't worth it.

Give it a try. This is how new things are learned and good discoveries are made. I was just stating some observations, but don't let me discourage you from discovering something that might be good.

 

[Hallbomber]

Ok thanks everybody. So Tom are you saying I need to buld a home from scratch? And of so, can you post the link to your documented build. Also, where can I get a radiant heat panel? I thought CHE was a better way to deliver heat to a tortoise over mats etc...because it mimics the sun. Now im nervous about damaging the shell of my torts although it has never happened.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

Radiant heat panels can be ordered online from amazon, tractor supply or any where that sells chicken coops.

Tom, I might give it a try. If i didn't have the dogs I would pass but now i am on the fence.

 

[Tom]

Ok thanks everybody. So Tom are you saying I need to buld a home from scratch? And of so, can you post the link to your documented build. Also, where can I get a radiant heat panel? I thought CHE was a better way to deliver heat to a tortoise over mats etc...because it mimics the sun. Now im nervous about damaging the shell of my torts although it has never happened.

A CHE doesn't mimic the sun. Its just a small spot of electrically generated heat with no light.

Here are the heat panels I use. They work perfectly. Same premise as an over head CHE, but the heat is spread out over a larger area instead one single very hot spot:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

To use these you need a well insulated box and I recommend a Kane heat mat be used underneath at the same time. Put them both on a thermostat set to the temp you desire for the time of year.

I have a simple 4x4 box with this set up, but I don't have the pictures with me. Here are my recent builds. You can just scale it down for a single tortoise:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-66867.html

I really think the mini oil heaters are the way to go. It warms all the air in there and maintains that heat easily. In this new 4x8' box, this heater uses about .18 cents a day of electricity when the nights are really cold, less or none during the warmer months, and that's with super high CA energy rates.

 

[Hallbomber]

Ok thanks a ton Tom!!! I have two torts btw. They are growing extremely fast, and they are full of personality.

 

[Dizisdalife]

I initially used the Hound Heater for my sulcata's night box. It is small, easy to install and overall a solid heater. But, as Tom predicted earlier it had trouble keeping the temps up around 80 - 85. The night box is a 24" x 48" x 30" high, well insulated wooden house. When the night time temps started dipping into the 40's I had to supplement the heater with a CHE. Soon afterward I replaced it with a mini oil filled heater because the CHE was creating a hot spot on the carapace. I could see where the scute lines were drying out and thickening, a precursor to pyramiding. I am using the Hound heater this summer as the single heat source in the box. It works just fine when the temps stay above 55 and the thermostat is set to 75.

 

[Sterling Thunder]

I initially used the Hound Heater for my sulcata's night box. It is small, easy to install and overall a solid heater. But, as Tom predicted earlier it had trouble keeping the temps up around 80 - 85. The night box is a 24" x 48" x 30" high, well insulated wooden house. When the night time temps started dipping into the 40's I had to supplement the heater with a CHE. Soon afterward I replaced it with a mini oil filled heater because the CHE was creating a hot spot on the carapace. I could see where the scute lines were drying out and thickening, a precursor to pyramiding. I am using the Hound heater this summer as the single heat source in the box. It works just fine when the temps stay above 55 and the thermostat is set to 75.

Thanks for the input on these as it seemed to be a decent design for size and safety. Keeping up with cold outdoor temps is the real drawback you guys have pointed out.

 

[lynnedit]

I agree, with the size enclosure you need, the mini oil heater is the way to go.