Help identifying this tortoise.

[Mun]

Hello all.

I need the help of an expert to help me identifying this turtoise.
It was sold to me as a 9 months old testudo graeca.
I bought it on late May, 10th. I have no idea of its gender. Its weight: 22 grams.

I want to give it the best life possible. I want to know what's the best environment for this creature as far as substrate is concerned therefore I need to know where it comes from. Browsing the web I realized the familiar forms of the Greek tortoise are:

Ibera Greek tortoise (Testudo graeca ibera)
Libyan Greek tortoise (T. g. cyrenaica)
North African Greek tortoise (T. g. graeca)
“Golden” Greek tortoise (T. graeca ssp.)
Tunisian Greek tortoise (T. g. nabulensis)

Which one is mine?
And now the images







My main concerns are diet and substrate.
As to diet:
It has a huge preference for broccoli and cauliflower. It also eats kale and sonchus oleraceus.
I have been trying to introduce rose petals, hibiscus flowers and opuntia to no avail. I will keep trying.
I give it no fruits. I have read articles saying yes for fruit and some others saying absolutely no fruit.
I will try to introduce dried hibiscus flowers (used in infusions) like these ones:



It has been eating fairly well. Problem is after some hot and sunny days here in Portugal, it has been raining these last couple of days so I stopped putting it outside on direct sunlight. I have to maintain it indoors in a temperature between 23 and 30c (UVA/UVB lamp). Coincidentally the creature stopped eating and hides itself in the dandelion hay. I wonder if it misses the direct sunlight. I also bathe it daily in warm water (bottled water) and dust its food with calcium. I also sprinkle its food with water.
It hasnt been eating for the last 2 days.

As to substrate I use Versele-Laga Mountain Hay-Hay Mountain With Dandelion
http://www.miscota.co.uk/small-animals/versele-laga/p-52500

I have some pebbles here and there and always keep a shallow ceramic recipient with bottled water.

Thank in advance for all the help identifying my lovely turtoise.

Mun

 

[wellington]

@HermanniChris should be able to help you.

 

[Merrick]

looks to me like Iberia Greek tortoise (Testudo graeca Iberia) but i am not sure nor an expert also a plastron (under side) pic would help

Your tortoises substrate should be coco coir (coconut husk material) or dirt or a mixture of the two

Care Sheet
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

 

[HermanniChris]

It's a North African Greek, most likely Testudo graeca marokkensis.

 

[Mun]

@HermanniChris should be able to help you.

Thank you for the tip, Wellington.

 

[Mun]

looks to me like Iberia Greek tortoise (Testudo graeca Iberia) but i am not sure nor an expert also a plastron (under side) pic would help

Your tortoises substrate should be coco coir (coconut husk material) or dirt or a mixture of the two

Care Sheet
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

I'm now ordering
Hagen EXO TERRA COCO HUSK 8 L
Thank you for the tip.

 

[Mun]

It's a North African Greek, most likely Testudo graeca marokkensis.

Thanks a lot, dear HermanniChris.
I'm buying the COCO HUSK as I write.
Any idea of its gender or is it too soon to tell?

 

[Merrick]

Thanks a lot, dear HermanniChris.
I'm buying the COCO HUSK as I write.
Any idea of its gender or is it too soon to tell?

It is much too soon to tell

 

[Carol S]

Cute little tort! Welcome to the forum!

 

[teresaf]

26-27 is the lowest I would let a baby get that might be why he's hiding more. increase heat.

 

[Mun]

Cute little tort! Welcome to the forum!

Thanks a lot =)

 

[Mun]

Help again, please.
Does anyone have a reliable and preferably extensive food list for this creature?
I've read a lot about the matter but I've found contradictory statements.

Thanks a lot.

 

[JoesMum]

Nothing contradictory about this advice.

Your tort needs a diet of a variety of leafy greens for good health. You do not have to give a variety in a day or even across a week. When you buy food, buy something different each time.

Greens must be free of pesticides and herbicides. It can be assumed that those grown for human consumption are OK in this respect. Washing the greens before feeding is good practice and helps your tort to stay hydrated as well.

Dandelions, sow thistles, plantain (not the banana type fruit - the small green weed), grape vine leaves, rocket (also called arugula), bindweed leaves, romaine lettuce, clover can all be included in the mix. Feed a pile roughly the size of your tort's shell.

Your tort cannot digest sugars easily. Too much sweet food will make your tort sick. Fruit, including tomato and bell peppers, and carrot should only be fed very occasionally in very small portions as a treat.

You can look up weeds and plants growing around you, and also those you can buy, for suitability to feed on The Tortoise Table Plant Database http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_database_14.asp

The Tortoise Table Plant Booklet is useful for identification http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_booklet_8595_40.asp

 

[JoesMum]

I should add that the Tortoise Table Plant Database is about the most complete diet list that you will find on the internet.

 

[Mun]

Nothing contradictory about this advice.

Your tort needs a diet of a variety of leafy greens for good health. You do not have to give a variety in a day or even across a week. When you buy food, buy something different each time.

Greens must be free of pesticides and herbicides. It can be assumed that those grown for human consumption are OK in this respect. Washing the greens before feeding is good practice and helps your tort to stay hydrated as well.

Dandelions, sow thistles, plantain (not the banana type fruit - the small green weed), grape vine leaves, rocket (also called arugula), bindweed leaves, romaine lettuce, clover can all be included in the mix. Feed a pile roughly the size of your tort's shell.

Your tort cannot digest sugars easily. Too much sweet food will make your tort sick. Fruit, including tomato and bell peppers, and carrot should only be fed very occasionally in very small portions as a treat.

You can look up weeds and plants growing around you, and also those you can buy, for suitability to feed on The Tortoise Table Plant Database http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_database_14.asp

The Tortoise Table Plant Booklet is useful for identification http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_booklet_8595_40.asp

(For speech sake, I will say the creature is female)
One thing I take for certain: they need a lot of fiber.
I always wash the vegetables or weeds prior to feeding.
I resist the temptation of adding some vinegar for sterilization purposes.
I try to feed her in the morning at the same time.
Sometimes she's not even awake but I remove her from her terrarium anyway and place her outside to enjoy direct
sunlight. I sometimes wonder if I should respect her sleep and only feed her when she wakes up. But she's so tiny
I feel I have to feed her every day.
First I bathe her in warm water. Bottled water. For 30 minutes or so. She poops. Then she eats.


So far I've tried with NO SUCCESS:

Hibiscus flower (I would like to try dried flowers but no idea if that would hurt her; Same goes to dandalion, they are used in infusions.)
Hibiscus leaves
Rose petals
Leek


The creature seems to like:
Arugula
Cauliflower
Broccoli
Sonchus oleraceus (sow thistles)
Kale


I'm trying to expand the diet. Your instructions were quite useful. I will inspect the database you mentioned.


As to lettuce I read that it's a complete no-no.
Clover? do you mean "trifolium"?


As to fruit I once tried kiwi, strawberry and apple but I've read somewhere NEVER ever to feed them fruit so I didn't
repeat the experience.

Thanks a lot for your insights, JoesMum.

 

[JoesMum]

Yes, clover is trifolium.

Lettuce is low in fibre and has a high water content. Some are better than others. Apart from the pale white varieties like iceberg, the others can be used safely in moderation to add to the mix.

The routine you have established sounds good especially the soak, poop, eat bit

 

[Mun]

26-27 is the lowest I would let a baby get that might be why he's hiding more. increase heat.

Well "he" has the same behaviour at 36c. :-/

 

[JoesMum]

36C (97F) is too hot for the background temperature. It's fine under the basking lamp, but if it gets too hot, a tort will go into a summer version of hibernation called aestivation. The tort's body shuts down so it can wait for cooler temperatures.

What temperatures do you have
- warm side of your enclosure
- cool side
- directly under the basking lamp
- overnight minimum?

 

[Mun]

36C (97F) is too hot for the background temperature. It's fine under the basking lamp, but if it gets too hot, a tort will go into a summer version of hibernation called aestivation. The tort's body shuts down so it can wait for cooler temperatures.

What temperatures do you have
- warm side of your enclosure
- cool side
- directly under the basking lamp
- overnight minimum?

- 26c
- 27c
- 36c was the temperature I got with the sensor right under the basking lamp.
- 20-22c

When I put her outside to eat temperatures get really high this time of the year... like 38c and chances are they will go higher.

I ignored the aestivation process. This is my first turtoise. I bought 2 trachemy scripta scripta in 2007 and never hibernated. Their water is stable at 26c and they always have their "private sun" as you can see below.
I don't want the tiny one to hibernate if I can avoid it. It's a dangerous process and she's too tiny.






In this second picture you can see the difference in size. The tiny one behind.
This picture was taken before I bought the cocconut substract.
I turned off their "private sun" for the picture.

Meanwhile I read the pdf from that database link you gently gave me.
I got some surprises. Specially concerning the maranta leuconeura. I have a few.

After reading the pdf I planted a lot of weeds in a vase.

So in theory all turtoises may eat all those weeds and plants even if coming from different origins?

 

[Mun]

I should add that the Tortoise Table Plant Database is about the most complete diet list that you will find on the internet.

I checked the other links you had in your signature. Hélas only the first one worked. FYI. =)