Heat mat at night

[MrsL]

Hi everyone,

I got a new tortoise called Mortimer a couple of days ago and am still finding my feet. Everyday I seem to make changes to his enclosure to make it better for him! I've got a Horsfield, about 9 months old I think. He lives in a tortoise table, and has a UV strip light and a bulb for heat. At the basking end, temperatures are 33°c, and the cool end is around 18°c. On a night, it drops to 15.2°c at the most (I have digital thermometers that show the minimum and maximum temperatures at each end). He has the tortoise terrain substrate (I think it's sand, topsoil and some kind of calcium? I bought it from Pets at Home) and there is a layer of woodchips under this too. I know woodchips are not recommended by some experts, but he was on them in the reptile centre and seems to really like burrowing down to them (When I change his substrate next, I'm looking at just the tortoise terrain stuff).

Anyway, convoluted way of asking, with the minimum temp of 15.2, but a deep layer of substrate for burrowing, do I need a heat mat overnight or is this temp ok?

Thank you!

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. The cool side is too cold as you need to add humidity to his enclosure. But damp/humid and cold makes a sick tort. A heat mat is not recommended but a ceramic heat emitter is. Also the wood chips depending on what kind it is isn't bad but sand is as it can cause impaction.
Please read the caresheets under the species section.

 

[JoesMum]

Hi @MrsL

To help you we need to know what species of tortoise you have as care differs hugely between species.

Photos of your tortoise, its enclosure and the lighting will help us to help you best.

Pet stores like Pets at Home don't have a great reputation for supplying accurate and up to date care information unfortunately. We have species experts here working hard to correct that

I'll start by suggesting you read this

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[MrsL]

Thank you for a prompt reply. He has a ceramic heat emitter above his table, his heat bulb is attached to this. The woodchips are beech ones, large to avoid ingestion. The substrate is a tortoise specific one, so isn't solely sand. I will fiddle around and get the temp up at the cool end for him. I've just checked and the cool end is currently on 20°c as I am at home and I have the central heating on, but will look at ways to maintain the temp more constantly. What is an optimum temperature for the cool end?

 

[JoesMum]

Just seen you have a Horsfield aka Russian.

Photos of the enclosure and lighting will still help us to help you.

The substrate contains calcium. This is NOT good. Your tort needs calcium, but it shouldn't be getting it by eating the substrate! Sand impacts in the gut. That will get eaten along with the calcium.

Your tort's diet is leafy weedy greens and that supplemented by a tiny pinch of calcium powder sprinkled on food 3 times a week is all the calcium he needs.

Fine grade orchid bark or coco coir is a much better substrate.

This is the care sheet that you need for a baby Russian
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

Otherwise this is best
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone,

I got a new tortoise called Mortimer a couple of days ago and am still finding my feet. Everyday I seem to make changes to his enclosure to make it better for him! I've got a Horsfield, about 9 months old I think. He lives in a tortoise table, and has a UV strip light and a bulb for heat. At the basking end, temperatures are 33°c, and the cool end is around 18°c. On a night, it drops to 15.2°c at the most (I have digital thermometers that show the minimum and maximum temperatures at each end). He has the tortoise terrain substrate (I think it's sand, topsoil and some kind of calcium? I bought it from Pets at Home) and there is a layer of woodchips under this too. I know woodchips are not recommended by some experts, but he was on them in the reptile centre and seems to really like burrowing down to them (When I change his substrate next, I'm looking at just the tortoise terrain stuff).

Anyway, convoluted way of asking, with the minimum temp of 15.2, but a deep layer of substrate for burrowing, do I need a heat mat overnight or is this temp ok?

Thank you!

Hello and welcome.

There is a lot of conflicting info out in the world on tortoise care. Ironically, pet stores are usually the worst source of info for tortoise care. Pet shops ten d to sell people useless or dangerous products and most of them don't seem to understand even the basics of tortoise or reptile care. This being the case, I'm glad you found us.

This is all explained in the links in the previous posts here, but I thought I would hit some highlights:
1. That pets at home substrate is a very bad idea. Tortoises get calcium cravings from time to time as they grow and encouraging them to eat their substrate to satisfy these cravings is a huge mistake. Beech chips are not good because they will mold with dampness, and your baby needs dampness. Fine grade orchid bark or coco coir will work much better and are safer.
2. As mentioned, stay out of the pet shop and don't take their advice on products. Their interest is in making a sale. Our interest is in seeing healthy tortoises with happy tortoise keepers.
3. No heat mats for tortoises. Deliver the heat from over head.
4. The basking area directly under the bulb should be around 36-37. 33 is fine over near the warm side, but they need a hotter basking area. Also, spot bulbs should not be used. They concentrate too much desiccating heat into too small of an area and they contribute to pyramiding.
5. I like to keep night temps for a baby closer to 20 C. You should be able to do this with your CHE set on a thermostat.

Please feel free to question any of this and ask for more explanation.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

As a source of heat a heat mat with a thermostat works well, just not mounted such that the tortoise can sit on it. Side wall mount on the cool end works well, and this way the tortoise can better adjust exposure. If the choice is to sit on it or not, they will sit on it, and that seems** to be not how their physiology works best for maintaining a temp.

It is not that wood chips as a substrate are bad, but many woods packaged and sold for this purpose are not best at all for a tortoise. Most are initially packaged as bedding for pet mice and rats, hamsters etc. then repackaged for reptiles. Rodents make a toilet area and that works for them, otherwise they are kept pretty dry. Tortoises should often have a moister area to be at rest and most of the rodent wood chip bedding have volatile oils and resins that in the concentrated form as a bedding area, are not good, or as said already they can mold.

That's why the coconut products coir, chunks etc are recommended as they don't mold so readily and hold moisture. Orchid bark is not bark from orchids, but bark that orchid growers use, and again tends to not mold readily. I use a combination of things and over time by replacing some but not all of the substrate they get mixed. I use Coco chunks, orchid bark and cypress mulch, all of these conform the the criteria we are talking about.

I myself don't think the most cool temp is too cool, but warmer will help the tortoise maintain a level of activity that better suits captivity. A side wall mounted heat pad or ceramic heat emitters can work well. I try to use as low a wattage one as possible with a thermostat.

You said "everyday I seem to make changes". Don't do that. Think about it, if some mystery magic rearranged your living space it would be disorienting. No need to extend any other concepts there, disorienting is all I mean. Tortoises 'map' and every-time the map changes they can loose where things are. Increasing warmth or changing diets, all should be done slow and step-wise. Nothing you have described is life threatening so no need for radical changes.

** Tortoises do not have a mechanism in the wild for bottom heat, Rocks or dark soil that collect heat in the day, will loose that heat pretty quick once the sun goes down. So their physiology has not adapted to getting heat that way. They can selectively change blood flow to hold or maintain body temps to some extent, but non of that ability is evolved around 'bottom' heat. Ambient temperatures or mild night time overhead heat is better, ambient being the better in that choice. That's why a side mounted heat mat can be optimal as is creates a gradient with proximity.

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Flav-the-horsefield]

Hi,
Sorry to jump on this thread.
@Will where you say a side mounted heat mat is ok..
I have a heat mat and in the dark/hide section of my tortoise table it has a glass partition to put the heat mat on.
Is this OK?
So basically, it would be on the opposite side of the glass to emit heat.
I have a thermostat to attach to it.
Would this be ok?
I don't think we need it now.
The house is pretty warm as it is spring time.
Just looking ahead to autumn/winter.

I'm in the south-east UK

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I use tiles and place them between two tiles on edge in the enclosure or laying flat on top of bricks or 2 x 4s, in this later case so the tortoise can get underneath.

17 watt seed starter mats are water proof, and several of the same wattage can be used with one thermostat if one is not enough. Most thermostats have a few hundred watts of capability, it should say so on the packaging. It's my understanding that when more than one heating device is run through a thermostat they should all be the same wattage.