Giant tortoise heating system

[Kapidolo Farms]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30548885

Sorry guys, I did not find a 'free access' to the whole article.

 

[Olddog]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30548885

Sorry guys, I did not find a 'free access' to the whole article.

FYI...
Being somewhat frugal (cheap), I downloaded the thesis as a free PDF file. This information is under Chapter 5.
The following is pasted from another post.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...helonians-From-individuals-to-communities.pdf

This may be a slow free download from Researchgate. This is a portion of a disertation. The studies are primarily focused on Aldabra giant tortoises (Aldabrachelys gigantea) done on Aldabra Atoll with some studies done on animals at the Zurich zoo. In their study (Chapter 3) they concluded neither body size or seed size affected gut retention times of Aldabra giant tortoises. They fed the tortoises artificial seeds (plastic beads of different sizes and weights) in rice balls with tomato paste and counted passage time of each in scat sampled twice daily.

Perhaps more applicable to giant tortoise keepers are the temperature studies and application to artificial heating of tortoises. Among other things, they studied “tortoise body temperature fluctuations, including how their core and external body temperatures vary in relation to different environmental temperature ranges”. Temperature loggers were fed to the tortoises, internal temperature recorded every 15 minutes, and compared to external temperatures. Part of the study time other body surface temperatures were measured as well.

This technology and findings were utilized in Chapter 5: Evaluation of Artificial Heating Sources for the Thermoregulation of Aldabra Giant Tortoises (Aldabrachelys gigantea) in Zürich Zoo. They suggested “basking lamps can be insufficient to heat up the ground and provide appropriate heating for basking species in temperate climates (which can lead to rapid heat loss through conduction), and result in low Tbc as well as cloacal infections in tortoises (Samour et al. 1986).” They state “Chelonians lack suitable pain receptors and appear to be unable to respond to heat trauma, so it is important to carefully monitor ground heating areas to avoid injuries and fatalities (McArthur & Barrows 2008).“ Other heat sources and precautions are discussed.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29468029

here is the in-situ part of the study.

Good job on sourcing that @Olddog !

 

[Tom]

Thank you both for this!

 

[jsheffield]

Thanks for the info ....

I read the chapter on heating, but was left wondering about how applicable the information/conclusions are to redfoots; assuming the answer is "not very", I wonder if there's a similar study for smaller tortoises.

Thanks,

Jamie

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Thanks for the info ....

I read the chapter on heating, but was left wondering about how applicable the information/conclusions are to redfoots; assuming the answer is "not very", I wonder if there's a similar study for smaller tortoises.

Thanks,

Jamie

It not a recipe, but rather a concept. I think the heat from above will conduct (if that's the right word) out of the bottom of the tortoise if the ground the tortoise is on is cold.

The concept is the whole environment needs to be heated. I advocate for the use of the high heat area of an enclosure to be a zone from indirect heat sources, like a radiant heat panel or a CHE directed at a ceramic tile, that is above the tortoise. https://kapidolofarms.com/indoor-housing/

 

[vsommers]

I found this thread looking for info on what size is regarded as safe for Aldabra juveniles to have Kane heat mat in their night box for an outdoor FL enclosure. I have three yearlings that have outgrown their old enclosure/night box so the new larger box needs additional heating. The heat mat would not cover the entire floor and there is plenty of room for them to not be on top of it if desired. The air will be heated by oil filled radiator on temp controller, my old RHP died after some water leaked in the roof and made its way into the enclosed panel mounted on the ceiling of their box.
I have access to most publications through work network, so here's that original paper if anyone is still interested.

 

[Tom]

I found this thread looking for info on what size is regarded as safe for Aldabra juveniles to have Kane heat mat in their night box for an outdoor FL enclosure. I have three yearlings that have outgrown their old enclosure/night box so the new larger box needs additional heating. The heat mat would not cover the entire floor and there is plenty of room for them to not be on top of it if desired. The air will be heated by oil filled radiator on temp controller, my old RHP died after some water leaked in the roof and made its way into the enclosed panel mounted on the ceiling of their box.
I have access to most publications through work network, so here's that original paper if anyone is still interested.

Thank you for the link and info.

I move sulcatas and leopards outside once they reach about 10" in length. They have 18x28 inch Kane heat mats and 21" RHPs over head at this stage in their lives. Both the mat and RHP are controlled by a single thermostat and come on and off with the air temp on the cooler side of the night box, away from the heat sources. If the air temp in the box is below the set point, both heaters are on. The tortoises can move off of the mat and still be inside the warm box. Boxes are 4x4 feet outside and roughly 40x40 inches inside. Unfortunately, my thread showing these 4x4 boxes lost all the pics when tinypic shut down, otherwise I would show you how I do it.

 

[wellington]

Thank you for the link and info.

I move sulcatas and leopards outside once they reach about 10" in length. They have 18x28 inch Kane heat mats and 21" RHPs over head at this stage in their lives. Both the mat and RHP are controlled by a single thermostat and come on and off with the air temp on the cooler side of the night box, away from the heat sources. If the air temp in the box is below the set point, both heaters are on. The tortoises can move off of the mat and still be inside the warm box. Boxes are 4x4 feet outside and roughly 40x40 inches inside. Unfortunately, my thread showing these 4x4 boxes lost all the pics when tinypic shut down, otherwise I would show you how I do it.

Your confusing on the kane mats.
You state above the kane mats and the RHP are over head. But then later in the post you mention the torts can move off the mats?

 

[Tom]

Your confusing on the kane mats.
You state above the kane mats and the RHP are over head. But then later in the post you mention the torts can move off the mats?

They have Kane mats (Which are always mounted on the floor...), and 21 inch RHPs mounted overhead...

 

[vsommers]

Thank you for the link and info.

I move sulcatas and leopards outside once they reach about 10" in length. They have 18x28 inch Kane heat mats and 21" RHPs over head at this stage in their lives. Both the mat and RHP are controlled by a single thermostat and come on and off with the air temp on the cooler side of the night box, away from the heat sources. If the air temp in the box is below the set point, both heaters are on. The tortoises can move off of the mat and still be inside the warm box. Boxes are 4x4 feet outside and roughly 40x40 inches inside. Unfortunately, my thread showing these 4x4 boxes lost all the pics when tinypic shut down, otherwise I would show you how I do it.

Thanks! Yeah, I had seen the build posts last year when we built the first version. Since I have 3 Aldabras similar in age and size we need to build a larger enclosure and heat box after their first year one. New night box will have two doors since they would like to sometimes sit in the doorway blocking the entrance/exit for the others. The old box had a flip top roof that leaked and killed the RHP, so I also need to figure out a new design for that. I’m not sold on replacing the RHP and was leaning more towards an oil filled radiator with the Kane mat. They are possibly approaching 10 in size now, haven’t measured but keep a weight log. The new box will be 8’ x 3’

 

[Yvonne G]

I opted for a people-sized shed for my Aldabran tortoises, with pig blankets on the floor and a 250 watt brooder light on only at night, hanging from the ceiling, but about 4' above the tortoises' backs:

 

[Tom]

Thanks! Yeah, I had seen the build posts last year when we built the first version. Since I have 3 Aldabras similar in age and size we need to build a larger enclosure and heat box after their first year one. New night box will have two doors since they would like to sometimes sit in the doorway blocking the entrance/exit for the others. The old box had a flip top roof that leaked and killed the RHP, so I also need to figure out a new design for that. I’m not sold on replacing the RHP and was leaning more towards an oil filled radiator with the Kane mat. They are possibly approaching 10 in size now, haven’t measured but keep a weight log. The new box will be 8’ x 3’

Save your self a lot of trouble and make the new box 8x4. The extra foot will buy you more time for your giants. Use a solid sheet of 4x8' plywood to make the roof. Seal the edges where the 2x4s are attached and it won't leak. GE Silicone I inside and primer and paint outside. I've never had a roof leak using this technique. No seems on my roofs.

 

[vsommers]

Save your self a lot of trouble and make the new box 8x4. The extra foot will buy you more time for your giants. Use a solid sheet of 4x8' plywood to make the roof. Seal the edges where the 2x4s are attached and it won't leak. GE Silicone I inside and primer and paint outside. I've never had a roof leak using this technique. No seems on my roofs.

What about access to the inside area of the box? That's been our biggest hold up with the roof design. The old one flipped open which we used quite often to check for fire ants and other concerns. I don't think the box will be tall enough to have a side access door that I would be able to work through.

 

[Blackdog1714]

If you add hinges and pistons to assist you with lifting. They even make electric ones to do the lifting for you

 

[Tom]

What about access to the inside area of the box? That's been our biggest hold up with the roof design. The old one flipped open which we used quite often to check for fire ants and other concerns. I don't think the box will be tall enough to have a side access door that I would be able to work through.

Here is an example. If you want two doors, just don't add in the divider.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

Here is one that I built for my friend's Aldabra. The only difference is that its a little taller inside.

 

[vsommers]

This is what we’ve done so far. There will be rmax insulation and then a layer of wall board inside with wood or super fine calcium sand flooring. Dirt and rock will be added outside to build up ramp to walk in. Main enclosure is 16’x16’ we’ll also add some netting across the top. Working out the details on heating and roofing for the night box to improve on their current version which you can kinda see in the background of the second photo

 

[Tom]

I wouldn't use wall board inside. They will wear right through it. Plywood is the way to go.

No sand. Not anywhere. Its a huge impaction risk and also a skin and eye irritant.