Exercise Enclosure

[Stella Redfoot]

I have about an 8” Redfoot tortoise in a 125 gallon tank that measures 72”x18”. This worked for me in the summer because I would take her out daily, but now that it’s getting colder, I’m worried about the amount of exercise she’s getting. Normally she just sits around in her terrarium, and even when I give her a bath she doesn’t move much. So I was wondering if an “exercise” enclosure would encourage her to move more.

I was looking at an 8x4 raised garden bed with a greenhouse cover (picture below) that I thought would be good. It would help to keep in humidity and could also be a good enclosure when she grows larger (I don’t currently have the space to put a permanent enclosure of that size anywhere, so whatever exercise enclosure I come up with would have to be moved every once in a while). Does this sound like a good solution to my problem? If so, how would I ensure she’s warm enough and will actually utilize the space? I want to do what’s best for her!

Thanks!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!

Gorgeous redfoot!

How do you plan to use this "exercise enclosure"? Do you plan to add substrate, hides, lights and such? Or simply put and remove it daily?

Garden bed is a nice option, but isn't easy to move around. I would look for at hydroponic grow tents as a semi-permanent solution (easy to assemble, can be used as a full-blown enclosure). Kiddy pool or foldable dog/rabbit runs can be put/moved daily.

In an exercise enclosure you don't need neither high temperatures nor humidity. Use a room humidifier to keep ambient humidity in 60-70% (comfortable for you) and set a basking area in the exercise pen. At her size of 8" we can worry less about pyramiding.

Most likely she will walk around and use the space if you put hides on cold/warm sides, some food stations and visual barriers.

 

[Stella Redfoot]

She appreciates the compliment!

I was planning to just put down a thin layer of orchid bark so she isn’t walking on the cold floor and some sort of heater to warm the air, which could be a heat lamp. There is in-floor heating in the space I was planning to use, but I think it’d be more comfortable for her with the substrate. I also wouldn’t be removing it daily, just for cleaning or hiding away when I have people over. I will look into the grow tent - do you have a size recommendation?

 

[Stella Redfoot]

Sorry for the 6 pictures! My connection was in and out while I was writing the post

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

She appreciates the compliment!

I was planning to just put down a thin layer of orchid bark so she isn’t walking on the cold floor and some sort of heater to warm the air, which could be a heat lamp. There is in-floor heating in the space I was planning to use, but I think it’d be more comfortable for her with the substrate. I also wouldn’t be removing it daily, just for cleaning or hiding away when I have people over. I will look into the grow tent - do you have a size recommendation?

Okay, probably I get the idea.
A thin (1-2") layer of bark, probably won't make much difference and it will be problematic to remove it when you move/hide the enclosure. Something like a woven jute or coconut fiber rug or soft yoga mat can be easier to maintain. Yet, I agree that proper substrate is better for her.

Grow tent takes time to set it up or disassemble but once in a while, I think, it's doable. Perhaps, for your situation, a popup tent/pool/run is better (but grow tents allow better heat/humidity control).

8x4 enclosure is something we can consider a starter size (it can be 10x3 as well). Making it less than 3' wide is not desirable - it's a bit tight for a 8" tortoise to navigate and turn around. Fully grown redfoots may need a dedicated room or section (100-200 sq.ft or more) if they have to stay there for a few months - but it's definitely a permanent setup.

 

[COmtnLady]

Oh wow...
RedFoots are a tropical species and NEED it to be at 84F and 84% humidity or a little higher, 100% of the time, all year round.
An enclosure on the floor puts the tortoise at the coldest part of the room - so while you, three to four feet higher, are comfy, the tortoise is sitting at twenty degrees colder that it needs to live. You may be able to keep a tightly closed chamber at a reasonable temperature, but even that is a bit easier when the enclosure is up off of the floor.

Adult tortoises NEED a minimum of 4' X 8', with bigger than that being better. Four foot by eight foot's the minimum.
Torts need to walk a LOT to keep their gastro-intestinal tract healthy. If they don't get enough exercise some substances don't get moved along and can form kidney or bladder stones - which at the least is painful, at the worst can kill the tortoise, and usually involve large veterinary bills.

In order to more easily keep the humidity up its necessary to have around 6-8" of substrate.
I like having the lower half be coco coir and the upper layer to be orchid/fir bark, but lots of keepers just use the bark. I keep the coco coir very damp, with the lowest inch qualifying as "wet". That water evaporates up through the dry bark layer and provides a nice steady level of humidity that is fairly easily maintained by pouring warm water, a cup or two at a time, in the corners only, then re-measuring the humidity a few hours later. In no time you will have a feel for how much to add and how often.


Welcome to the forum! This place is the best, an evolving encyclopedia of the newest and best ways to help your tortoise thrive!



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Have you had a chance to read this yet?

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

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And this one is specifically for RedFoots ~

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This is good general background stuff about RedFoots ~

Redfoot Tortoise Care Sheet

NOTE: I do not keep redfoots, and I only have one tortoise in total. With this in mind, remember that I am in no way an expert, and this should not be used as cold hard proof of how to raise a redfoot. I used information from great keepers on this forum to put everything together. This care...

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It was written a few years ago, and since then there are a couple things we've discovered can be done better when done differently, but that info is in the various other topics linked here.


And this one should help keep you from making mistakes in the new enclosure.

Common keeping errors

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I'd read through these, and discuss things here with other members before buying new equipment to make sure you understand which pieces are best and why. Discussing things will save you a lot of time, effort, money, and stress, and keep your tortoise happier.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

> "RedFoots are a tropical species and NEED it to be at 84F and 84% humidity or a little higher, 100% of the time, all year round."

Sorry, can't agree on that. It doesn't happen in their natural range and even less true for "cherry-heads" (Brazilian locality). "Pacman" frogs inhabit overlapping ranges with redfoots, I haven't heard about 84-84 rule for them. Also, there is a long story of keeping redfoots outside in Florida or some parts of Texas all year round: it's not 84/84 there.

Redfoots need higher humidity and more stable average temperature than some other tortoise species but keeping parameters constant is not necessary. 84/84 rule, as I can imagine, is more about hatchlings who prone to pyramiding and has less thermal mass to sustain temperature swings. "Redfoots don't bask" is a similar misconception: they do bask when body temperature falls below comfort level. And heat lamp is more efficient for warming up a large tortoise (I presume a 8" Redfoot about 4-5lbs) than just dissipated ambient heat.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

If I read the comments right the floor would be find to set up on . They have heated floors in this area. Especially if the floor temps can be raised a bit higher to help with the heating.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

This thread does raise an interesting topic, I agree with @COmtnLady and think it’s optimal for red foot’s to be kept in those ranges 100% of the time, it’s just naturally the climate they thrive in, I’ve seen it first hand over multiple different keeping methods now, it’s a no brainer.

On the flip side, unfortunately so many keepers are fighting against awful climates and spacing issues, to ensure the whole scale they need can match the high temperatures and humidity red foots thrive in, can prove an impossible challenge for most indoors, red foots ideally need at least a 10x10 room(more if possible), in our climate we simply wouldn’t be able to maintain a humidity above 80 on that scalehowever, I think that a red foot needs access to a large area that can maintain that higher humidity they need for life, no matter what. For us that comes in the form of a large closed chamber, temperatures ranging 82-86, humidity high 80’s at all times, but in order to give her a larger area to roam, she has access to a more open spaced section via a ramp, this is a sectioned off, adapted area on our floor, we do have a large heater at her level to keep floor temps in a 75-78 range, is that range an ideal temperature for a red foot? Absolutely not, but an adult red foot with access to an area they can warm up in properly, can definitely make use of space within that slightly below ideal range, for example @Anyfoot is a uk red foot keeper, his red foots have access to the outdoors from their building, they come out on days when the temperatures are in that range, with no ill effects, I guess they don’t necessarily choose to stay out long, but they periodically come out to get some laps in, same with our Squirt. I wouldn’t do it for a young red foot though.

I wish we could give Squirt an entire area that was 82-86 with 80+ humidity, that’s what she’d truly thrive in, but at the same time, I’d rather her be able to make use of a space that’s still in a safe range for an adult, then face the potential health issues of keeping her in a smaller space with 100% optimal temp&humidity 24/7, hopefully that makes sense. She’s kept in the closed section at night, and I absolutely think if any red foot keeper plans to dedicate a space in an open setting, it’s needs to have some sort of heating at the tortoises level to stay in a safe range, or even an area to mount heat panels, it needs to be a sectioned area the tortoise can’t escape, a safe flooring/substrate(we use a special rubber matting), and, most importantly, they need access to a large closed chamber section that can maintain the higher humidity they need, substrate and the appropriate heating in there is a must for that.

It’s definitely a tricky topic, because we all fight and advocate for optimal conditions all over 24/7, and rightly so. But we’re also met with the common challenges many keepers face in captivity, sometimes it’s that balance of the ‘lesser of two evils’ with different captive challenges, what poses the ‘least risk’ to the tortoises long term health(if we’re still able to keep safe ranges and terrain of course).
I can see both sides, I’m not sure on @Alex and the Redfoot heat lamp comment, unless he’s meaning ceramics? because I just don’t like or see the use for basking bulbs with red foots, they do more harm than good imo, I’ve seen how much they dry out their darker shells

 

[COmtnLady]

The reasons I like to stick with the 84F/84% humidity are :

The farthest south the Redfoot range extends "in the wild", is basically the Tropic of Capricorn (in the vicinity of 25 degrees south latitude). Its also a relatively small area compared the the rest of their range, which includes the widest portion of their range where the Equator passes through. It is, by definition VERY tropical, hot and humid (usually not dropping below 80s ever in either category), and is where the largest percentage of RedFoots evolved.

The humidity in Paraguay does fluctuate between 65% in winter and 78% or a little higher in summer depending on what part of the country being looked at. If you have a tortoise from that southern Paraguay area, AND happen to live in the most southern part of South Padre Island, TX, or the southern-most parts of the Florida keys, then your climate possibly replicates that small percentage of tortoises' traditional range.

There is nowhere in the Continental United States that is "tropical". (The southern-most point of the Continental U.S. is in Key West at 24.55 degrees N. Latitude. Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are farther south, though.) Stella Redfoot lives in Wisconsin, their capitol city sits at 43 degrees North, northern-most point is 47 degrees North.

Any of us keeping tortoises in our colder dryer North American climates need to aim for optimal, rather than attempting to replicate how they live "in the wild". RedFoots can deal with short periods of cooler temps than mid-80sF, but its not as comfortable for them and they tend to sit under heating lamps (baking their shells into pointy bumps), and occasional drops in humidity (also can cause drying physical conditions/problems). To thrive, it is better, and easier, to stick with 84F and 84% humidity, in a closed enclosure, for adult RedFoots and hatchlings alike.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

A cite from Vinke's paper:
"Such a rapid drop in temperature we once experienced ourselves, the temperature
decreasing from 30 °C at 6:00 am to 9 °C at
6:00 pm. This day at high noon, the ambient
temperature was only 20 °C after the warmermorning. When such sudden drops in temperature occur, it is necessary for the tortoises immediately to find their refugia. Furthermore, they need a place to flee high temperatures, which can rise extremely at midday, often surpassing 45 °C in the shade."

This is a description of Chaco Boreal, where Redfooted tortoises are encountered. They obviously, don't run around but staying in or near the burrows (pretty similar to sulcatas). Nevertheless, this shows that temperature swings are not life-threatening for them and they can adapt to vast number of environmental conditions.

I never said that you can keep them outside at 40F. I'm saying that a few hours of exercise at 65F or higher with means to warm up (heat lamp, sunlight) is neither going to kill them nor make them pyramid badly.

As of the heat lamps: you don't need any when there are no temperature swings. But if there are, heat lamp allows to quickly rise core temperature. Neigher inside or outside I haven't seen my redfoot basking too much - it's either short periods or "shy basking" where she is mostly covered by shade or she simply goes away and hides when it's cold/too hot. I need to stress, probably, that for hatchlings things are different.

 

[Stella Redfoot]

Thank you all for your information! To clarify, this is not supposed to be a permanent setup (I already have a closed chamber with proper humidity and temps), but a place for her to get more exercise, as I can’t set up a larger permanent enclosure at the moment. For the “exercise” enclosure, I’m hoping that the heated floors and a heater will keep her comfortable. Would something like this work or would it be hard to keep the humidity in? It’s 8x4 and I’m thinking I might put plastic down to help contain the substrate and make cleanup easier.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you all for your information! To clarify, this is not supposed to be a permanent setup (I already have a closed chamber with proper humidity and temps), but a place for her to get more exercise, as I can’t set up a larger permanent enclosure at the moment. For the “exercise” enclosure, I’m hoping that the heated floors and a heater will keep her comfortable. Would something like this work or would it be hard to keep the humidity in? It’s 8x4 and I’m thinking I might put plastic down to help contain the substrate and make cleanup easier.

These work fine for retaining humidity but not so well for heat. Overall - still a good option. When making a plastic bottom, keep in mind that there will be condensate forming on tent walls and then running down on the floor.

 

[COmtnLady]

Do you have in-floor heating as was mentioned above?

How about a 4 X 8 sheet of styrofoam insulation under/separate from the substrate? It seems like it might help keep everything warmer. I'm still stuck on the floor being the coldest area of the room because heat rises.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Do you have in-floor heating as was mentioned above?

How about a 4 X 8 sheet of styrofoam insulation under/separate from the substrate? It seems like it might help keep everything warmer. I'm still stuck on the floor being the coldest area of the room because heat rises.

With heated floors using styrofoam and thick substrate is not a good idea. With non-heated floors it makes sense.