EMERGING COLOR?

[yagyujubei]

If you look at the edges of the yellow pattern, you can see more pattern partially covered with brown. Can I assume that these areas eventually will be fully yellow as well? This is a young female. Brown skin. She's CB and about 7 or 8 yo. It seems that with the brown skinned ones, there are areas with this haze over the patterns.

 

[EricIvins]

At 7 or 8 years old, what you see is pretty much what you get. Color is going to peak at 3-4 years old in captivity, then drop as the animal ages.......

 

[Tccarolina]

If you look at the edges of the yellow pattern, you can see more pattern partially covered with brown. Can I assume that these areas eventually will be fully yellow as well? This is a young female. Brown skin. She's CB and about 7 or 8 yo. It seems that with the brown skinned ones, there are areas with this haze over the patterns.

She is still growing? She looks like she's going to be very nice when she fully matures!
I would think that the brown coloring is still undifferentiated shell, and my guess is that you'll see some color and some dark develop in this tissue.
I think we'll learn a lot about shell and skin coloring in the next few years.

At 7 or 8 years old, what you see is pretty much what you get. Color is going to peak at 3-4 years old in captivity, then drop as the animal ages.......

I don't believe this is the case. Very few box turtles are colorful at 3-4 years old. The most colorful wild-caught box turtles are nearly all full adults. I don't know the source of the idea that coloring decreases with age, but it isn't proving to be the case. I think it comes from the fact that many box turtles lose color rapidly when brought into captivity. I'm willing to bet that all of these individuals were kept indoors, in shaded pens with no direct sunlight, or were very shy individuals in captivity and hide in total shade during sunlight hours.

Read here. . .
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...s-indoors-and-color-development#axzz1kIkZ8p5G
and here. . .
http://herpetology.com/belzer2/color.htm

 

[EricIvins]

If you look at the edges of the yellow pattern, you can see more pattern partially covered with brown. Can I assume that these areas eventually will be fully yellow as well? This is a young female. Brown skin. She's CB and about 7 or 8 yo. It seems that with the brown skinned ones, there are areas with this haze over the patterns.

She is still growing? She looks like she's going to be very nice when she fully matures!
I would think that the brown coloring is still undifferentiated shell, and my guess is that you'll see some color and some dark develop in this tissue.
I think we'll learn a lot about shell and skin coloring in the next few years.

At 7 or 8 years old, what you see is pretty much what you get. Color is going to peak at 3-4 years old in captivity, then drop as the animal ages.......

I don't believe this is the case. Very few box turtles are colorful at 3-4 years old. The most colorful wild-caught box turtles are nearly all full adults. I don't know the source of the idea that coloring decreases with age, but it isn't proving to be the case. I think it comes from the fact that many box turtles lose color rapidly when brought into captivity. I'm willing to bet that all of these individuals were kept indoors, in shaded pens with no direct sunlight, or were very shy individuals in captivity and hide in total shade during sunlight hours.

Read here. . .
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...s-indoors-and-color-development#axzz1kIkZ8p5G
and here. . .
http://herpetology.com/belzer2/color.htm

Every time that Female lays a clutch, she'll get duller.......That's a proven fact - Hormones - You can't change them........

You can also look at how the shell loses pigment over time......

And if she isn't mature at 7/8 in captivity, there's something wrong........

 

[Tccarolina]

Every time that Female lays a clutch, she'll get duller.......That's a proven fact - Hormones - You can't change them........

You can also look at how the shell loses pigment over time......

And if she isn't mature at 7/8 in captivity, there's something wrong........

I didn't know it was a proven fact. Where is this documented? I'd love to see a paper on it, or anything in print for that matter. Can you back this up?

How do you account for very old looking, yet intensely colored wild easterns?

My most prolific female is actually gaining color since i've had her. She's gone from almost totally washed out to nearly normal color in the 4 years I've had her. The rest of my collection in no way backs up that they are losing pigment over time.

I try to find every shred of information I can on eastern box turtles, and i've never come across anything saying females lose shell coloring during egg production/nesting. So if you have any tangible evidence, I'd love to see it.

If not, I'd suggest you read the belzer article.

Steve

 

[yagyujubei]

She did lay last season, but also grew. I have a couple of others, both brown skin/shell with similar shading. None of my black skinned ones show this, so I was wondering if this is just something peculiar to the brown ones.

 

[Tccarolina]

I have a young adult female that has brown portions on her shell as well. I was hoping that all the brown would become yellow. I'm thinking now that maybe most of it will turn dark. In a couple of years, I should know.
Here she is.

Amazing what a flash on wet shell can do! The flash reveals the underlying color withing the brown. I think unfortunately that only the vivid yellow will stay, and the rest will turn dark as she matures. We'll see.

 

[yagyujubei]

Steve, She's a beauty, and has exactly what I am talking about. It has to be related to the brown coloration,ince I don't see this in my black shelled ones.

 

[Tccarolina]

Steve, She's a beauty, and has exactly what I am talking about. It has to be related to the brown coloration,ince I don't see this in my black shelled ones.

You're right, it does seem to be a unique situation to brown oriented individuals.
Still, I don't remember seeing any old individuals with brown shells, and definitely not any with uncertain color areas. This is why I think these brown areas will sharpen up soon, differentiating into either yellow or dark.
Reviewing the above pictures, I think yours is going to end up with all the uncertain areas turning yellow, and mine is probably going to end up with the uncertain area turning dark, like may have happened long ago to Mona (below).

Here are three more females.
Colette is a young, still growing female. She is definitely a black background female, and you can see where the new color streaks might or might not be.

Mona is an older female, and I believe she was once a brownish shell base color. She is the closest I have to the "color streaks fading away" effect. But still the contrast is much more distinct than our two younger females.

Lisa is also an older female, and I believe she once had the browner base color. But once again, she has very distinct contrast between the yellow and the dark background.

 

[yagyujubei]

Here's a couple more brown ones.

 

[Tccarolina]

Here's a couple more brown ones.

You got that one! ! ! I wondered what happened with him. He's very nice! Super vivid lemon yellow head! More pics please! ! I'm glad he's ended up in good hands.
That female is very nice as well. With the head color, she'll pair very nicely with him.

 

[Yvonne G]

You all make me so jealous. I have 2.5 easterns and they're all very bland-looking. No real color to speak of.