fbsmith3 said:
I absolutely totally agree. I hate seeing these beautiful animals in the classified ads.
Raising baby easterns indoors and color development
- Thread starter Tccarolina
- Start date
- Status
I absolutely totally agree. I hate seeing these beautiful animals in the classified ads.
I understand. One of the projects I'd like to work on is finding out about the genetic diversity of the eastern box turtle because we need to know the genetic viability of populations in order to better conserve them. I wasn't expecting an exact location just county. I have seen melanistic boxers twice in one of the populations I've studied, though on a side note the area that the melanistic turtles were found has a high population of black grey squirrels
oh by the way my pen is built for the most part the lid still needs a frame and only a few plants have been introduced and some insects. I'll have pictures up when i can
oh by the way my pen is built for the most part the lid still needs a frame and only a few plants have been introduced and some insects. I'll have pictures up when i can
As far as I know, only males have been found with any blue on them. They also are found as single individuals in populations with normal looking turtles, so it's probably a recessive trait, requiring the recessive gene from each parent in order to be expressed. In addition, it is most common on the cheeks, but it may be on any part of the skin, and occasionally appears patchy, or pied. Individuals with blue nearly always have a white or mostly white beak as well. Apparently the blue color can't appear in keratin body parts like the shell or beak, so the beak becomes white instead.
Mexican boxies, Ornates, and Gulf Coasts also have variant members expressing blue, so it is not a unique event to easterns. But, like all box turtle coloration, easterns can do it bigger and better.
I hope someone raises some captive bred individuals soon. It will be interesting to find out if the blue coloration is visible immediately, or if it waits til maturity to appear. The difficult part is that a breeder has to have females from the population, and hope one of them is carrying the trait, then incubate for males, then possibly raise them til adult colors appear. Or breed a male to females that have not been bred in three or four years, then breed them, incubate for female to get heterozygous for blue females. These then can be raised, bred back to the male, or hopefully a different blue male. Then one would be able to have male and female progeny that are homozygous for blue. And all this would have to be done in hopes that it is a simple recessive trait.
Steve
It is still possible that females can express the trait, but none have been found yet.
It is also possible that it is a dominant trait, and some of the babies from any breeding of a blue male can show blue.
Or maybe it's much more complicated genetically.
I just hope all of the blue individuals that are collected from the wild are ending up in breeding programs, so the trait is not lost to herptoculture.
Steve
Mexican boxies, Ornates, and Gulf Coasts also have variant members expressing blue, so it is not a unique event to easterns. But, like all box turtle coloration, easterns can do it bigger and better.
I hope someone raises some captive bred individuals soon. It will be interesting to find out if the blue coloration is visible immediately, or if it waits til maturity to appear. The difficult part is that a breeder has to have females from the population, and hope one of them is carrying the trait, then incubate for males, then possibly raise them til adult colors appear. Or breed a male to females that have not been bred in three or four years, then breed them, incubate for female to get heterozygous for blue females. These then can be raised, bred back to the male, or hopefully a different blue male. Then one would be able to have male and female progeny that are homozygous for blue. And all this would have to be done in hopes that it is a simple recessive trait.
Steve
It is still possible that females can express the trait, but none have been found yet.
It is also possible that it is a dominant trait, and some of the babies from any breeding of a blue male can show blue.
Or maybe it's much more complicated genetically.
I just hope all of the blue individuals that are collected from the wild are ending up in breeding programs, so the trait is not lost to herptoculture.
Steve
or to throw a wrench in the works it could be epigenetic or paragenetic. Like the clown morp in sliders it could be not entirely genetic.
I've seen some of those clown morph sliders for sale. It seems like they are always sold from the SF Bay Area. What causes that?
it has to do with temperature and it's effect on the functioning of genes though I'm not sure what it does to them but it doesn't involve actual changes in the base so the same alleal for normal doesn't function properly. there is a good book called epi genetics.
Saloli said:
So, a clown phase slider will produce perfectly normal offspring?
Is that the reason you see so many eyeless, and facial deformities with them also?
Saloli said:
yes in theory they would produce normal offspring though I am unaware of any second generation turtles. It is possible that the genes that get messed up have more than one purpose, so they may be why they have a higher tendancy to have deformities or it could be the temperatures during developement mess up other genes as well.[/align]
On another forum, someone posted a blue cheeked male eastern that came from southern Illinois. South Carolina, Maryland, Illinois. . . . the blue genes are probably sporatically dispersed throughout the eastern subspecies range. Though none match the extensive potential of ones from south carolina so far.
- Status
