Egg laying emergency!

[Tank'sMom]

Any breeders out there right now? My tort is laying right now! But she didn't dig the hole very deep and she's crushing the eggs!
I don't know if I spooked her or what, but I think I interrupted her with the flashlight.
She looks like she's gonna lay more... She's digging around but moved to a different spot. Her "hole" wasn't that deep to begin with. I estimate about 5-6 broken eggs.

I saved four, but they have a few cracks. Can they still survive??? I used to breed and raise egg laying snakes and lizards but that was 20 years ago.
All I have right now is vermiculite. I mixed it with a some distilled water and put them in a plastic container.

Is there any hope for the cracked ones? Do I put the top on the container?

And should I leave her be? Dig a hole for her? What do I do????

I thought she might be gravid when I got her, but she was due to lay a month ago, so I thought not. I wasn't really ready. Luckily I have an incubator I got when she first arrived.

Suggestions??? HELP!!!

 

[wellington]

I'm no expert, but I would let her dig another hole or whatever she wants to do. The cracked eggs can survive. There is a thread of what to do. I can't remember who wrote it. You want the eggs to stay warm 85-89 I keep my leopard eggs at 89 trying for females and humid 80%. @Tom can help better I will try to find the thread an link it

 

[wellington]

Here is the thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/so-you-cracked-an-egg.128250/

Also @Yvonne G or @tortadise can help too

 

[Tank'sMom]

Thank you!!! I remember having a few slightly cracked Burmese Python eggs that made it. But I'm not sure about JUST laid tortoise eggs.
I can't believe she stepped on so many!

 

[wellington]

Is this her first clutch? My leopard laid her very first eggs with out even trying to dig. They weren't fertile, very soft. After that she laid three clutches all buried properly. But then this past winter she laid again, a couple just on the floor of the enclosure and two while she was getting a soak. She did have a spot to properly dig in, but I guess she didn't like it. I just read a post the other day of someone's female digging, then left it and went and dug some place else and I think finally laid in the second hole. It's hard to say why they do what they do. Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Tank'sMom]

Is this her first clutch? My leopard laid her very first eggs with out even trying to dig. They weren't fertile, very soft. After that she laid three clutches all buried properly. But then this past winter she laid again, a couple just on the floor of the enclosure and two while she was getting a soak. She did have a spot to properly dig in, but I guess she didn't like it. I just read a post the other day of someone's female digging, then left it and went and dug some place else and I think finally laid in the second hole. It's hard to say why they do what they do. Good luck, keep us posted.

No, she has been bred before, not sure how many times. I "rescued" her from a kid in Florida who kept her with 3 males. She was very "beat up" when she arrived. I didn't plan to breed her anytime soon. She is kept separately from my male.
Honestly, I'm just glad she isn't egg bound. That was a concern. I was told she would lay every 30 days religiously. It's been almost 2 months.
The soul here may be different? Maybe she has never been a good "layer"? I wonder if that's the case, if there is a way to help her.. Next time. If there is a next time. Maybe I should set aside an area of loosened, softer dirt for digging?
But, if there is anything I can do to save the 4 eggs, I'm all ears!!!

 

[Tank'sMom]

The cracked eggs looks exactly like chicken eggs! Nice dark yolks. I have a couple that are broken, but content still intact, my 6 year old wanted to taste them. :/

 

[motero]

Some times they are hasty, If they are like that, I help them out, dig the hole or grab the eggs. If they are in the zone they don't seem to be bothered by my presence. If they are just starting to dig and you poke around to much they will stop and run off. You are right to be glad the eggs are out, smashed or not anything is better than an egg bound tort.

 

[Tom]

Your vermiculite is too wet. The eggs are going to swell and pop.

Leave her be until she is all done and has covered up her nest and walked away. I hear about people catching eggs in their hand as they are laid, but none of my females would ever tolerate that. If I get within 50 feet of them while they are digging or laying, they abandon the whole process. Let her finish and dig up the eggs later.

That incubator will work fine for your first clutch or two, but soon you'll need another one. And another, and another...

Read this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

 

[Tank'sMom]

Your vermiculite is too wet. The eggs are going to swell and pop.

Leave her be until she is all done and has covered up her nest and walked away. I hear about people catching eggs in their hand as they are laid, but none of my females would ever tolerate that. If I get within 50 feet of them while they are digging or laying, they abandon the whole process. Let her finish and dig up the eggs later.

That incubator will work fine for your first clutch or two, but soon you'll need another one. And another, and another...

Read this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

I did actually catch one! I saw that she was smashing them with her back foot and as soon as I shined the flashlight on her (I check everybody like that when I get home) and before I even realized what I was doing I was right next to her checking the eggs for "survivors" and the last one popped right out onto my hand! lol.
Noted on the vermiculite! What's best, let it dry out or replace it completely? I read your post about the careful water to vermiculite ratio AFTER I had done that. I was in a bit of a panic...

 

[Tank'sMom]

@Tom, what are your thoughts on the cracks???

 

[Tank'sMom]

Some times they are hasty, If they are like that, I help them out, dig the hole or grab the eggs. If they are in the zone they don't seem to be bothered by my presence. If they are just starting to dig and you poke around to much they will stop and run off. You are right to be glad the eggs are out, smashed or not anything is better than an egg bound tort.

Yes! I am relieved she is not egg bound! I was worried.
Have you ever had success with slightly cracked eggs? Only the one I "caught" is completely intact. The other 3 have varying degrees of damage. All membranes intact. Any suggestions??
Any thoughts on why she didn't dig a "hole"? Any suggestions to fix that problem in the future??
Thanks for the help!

 

[Tom]

@Tom, what are your thoughts on the cracks???

A few years ago I had 12 cracked, dented, or damaged eggs for the season. I incubated all of these in their own separate tub in the incubator. 2 went bad and the other 10 all hatched into healthy babies.

Sometimes the cracked ones will hatch out just fine and sometimes they will rot. All you can do is give it a try.

 

[motero]

Yep nothing to lose, by trying. I have not had as good of luck with cracks. Dents are usually good and make it. Cracks to the point of a piece of shell missing usually don't make it. Or if the dent is large like bigger than a quarter they don't seem to do well. But I try and incubate most of them any ways.

 

[Tank'sMom]

So far so good. I'm managing to keep the temp right at 90. But I need to get a good temp/humidity gauge that I can put inside the box and see from the outside. I have tons of temp wires but never had a temp and humidity one. Any suggestions?
My "wet" vermiculite dried up and I actually had to add water at the edge.
Questions:
How do you guys keep your humidity stable??
How often do you peek at the eggs? I can't see through the container lid.
Can I change out the container/substrate? Add more? How deep should the eggs be?
Sorry for all the questions, but there's lots of info online, I only trust this site! I've read over the care sheets and don't remember these things being on there...

 

[motero]

Tom put the link above that contains a lot of answers to your questions.

 

[Tank'sMom]

Tom put the link above that contains a lot of answers to your questions.

I read it several times. It doesn't say anything about whether I can move them to different container, they were put in the current one in haste, or how deep the into the substrate the eggs should be, or how much "peeking" is appropriate.
So if anyone can help me out there, it would be much appreciated.
I'd like to move them... each into it's own container with a see through top, if that is advisable, and I'm worried about the cracked ones rotting.

 

[Tom]

I read it several times. It doesn't say anything about whether I can move them to different container, they were put in the current one in haste, or how deep the into the substrate the eggs should be, or how much "peeking" is appropriate.
So if anyone can help me out there, it would be much appreciated.
I'd like to move them... each into it's own container with a see through top, if that is advisable, and I'm worried about the cracked ones rotting.

I try to keep jostling and moving to a minimum, but yes, you can transfer them to a new container. Get a somewhat dull regular yellow pencil and gently make an "X" on the top of each egg before you move them. When you move them, don't turn them at all. Keep the "X" up at all times.

Egg Depth: It doesn't matter. You can set them on top, bury them completely, or anywhere in between. I've tried it all ways and all ways have worked, and I don't see any difference. Generally I bury them half to two/thirds. This keeps them from rolling around if I happen to move the tub for some reason.

Something is way off if your media is drying out that fast. The top should be on your shoe box and you should only have a couple of tiny holes on the side for ventilation. There should also be water in the channels at the bottom of the incubator, and I usually cover all the holes in the styrofoam of the incubator with electrical tape. I only have to add a little water to the media once or twice during the entire 90 day incubation, and then more after I see the first pip.

I try to keep peeking and fussing to a minimum, but once or twice a week should not hurt anything. Sometimes I'll go a whole month without looking or messing with the eggs.

About your temperatures: If you are using lab grade equipment and thermometers, then 90 is fine. WIth a Hovabator in your house, and a hardware store thermometer, you could be off a couple of degrees pretty easily. If the temp actually gets up to 92 for too long or at the wrong time in development, you will see split scutes and other deformities. Better to be on the safe side and slowly adjust the temp down to 88ish. This should still give you mostly females.

Questions are good. Ask lots of them!

 

[Tank'sMom]

I try to keep jostling and moving to a minimum, but yes, you can transfer them to a new container. Get a somewhat dull regular yellow pencil and gently make an "X" on the top of each egg before you move them. When you move them, don't turn them at all. Keep the "X" up at all times.

Egg Depth: It doesn't matter. You can set them on top, bury them completely, or anywhere in between. I've tried it all ways and all ways have worked, and I don't see any difference. Generally I bury them half to two/thirds. This keeps them from rolling around if I happen to move the tub for some reason.

Something is way off if your media is drying out that fast. The top should be on your shoe box and you should only have a couple of tiny holes on the side for ventilation. There should also be water in the channels at the bottom of the incubator, and I usually cover all the holes in the styrofoam of the incubator with electrical tape. I only have to add a little water to the media once or twice during the entire 90 day incubation, and then more after I see the first pip.

I try to keep peeking and fussing to a minimum, but once or twice a week should not hurt anything. Sometimes I'll go a whole month without looking or messing with the eggs.

About your temperatures: If you are using lab grade equipment and thermometers, then 90 is fine. WIth a Hovabator in your house, and a hardware store thermometer, you could be off a couple of degrees pretty easily. If the temp actually gets up to 92 for too long or at the wrong time in development, you will see split scutes and other deformities. Better to be on the safe side and slowly adjust the temp down to 88ish. This should still give you mostly females.

Questions are good. Ask lots of them!

Thanks so much, Tom!
I will everything you said. I ordered clear deli cups, so I can have one for each egg. I plan to transfer them once they arrive along with the digital thermometer probes and hygrometer probes I ordered one for each egg. As well as organic vermiculite, the other vermiculite is regular garden style we had laying around and some sphagnum moss.
Overkill??? Lol.
But I want to give them the best possible chance...
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help and advice!

 

[Tank'sMom]

Uuuuuuhhhhhmmmmmm....... Not happy. One of my eggs has some moldy stuff growing on it. And I think I can see it on another one too.
This is bad, right? Is there anything I can do???