DRAGONS FOUND IN INDONESIA!!

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I bet we would both agree that is one cool looking lizard

I especially like seeing the pictures in the people's hands with their wings spread.

Definitely. I would love to see one gliding in the wild!

Anyone trying to dispute man walking with dinosaurs has yet to meet my ex. Nuff said.

Ha ha! There's proof enough.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Or we could assume that the folks who live there are telling us the truth, as has been proved repeatedly about creatures that couldn't possibly exist (sayeth scientists of the time...)

Things like a hairy man-like beast in certain mountains of Africa...scientists at that time decided that they couldn't possibly exist...until someone brought back a skin and a couple of skulls, and later someone else brought back a live Mountain gorilla (Gorilla beringei beringei).

Another example was a giant lizard on some islands in the Indian Ocean that chased down deer and horses and, again, scientists at that time decided couldn't possibly exist...until someone brought back a few alive, and now we all know these as Varanus komodoensis or the Komodo Dragon.

Yet another is an African fish that all paleontologists "knew" became extinct millions of years ago...until a VERY surprised ichthyologist bought a freshly caught example from a fish vender in a native market, in 1938...

There are many more examples of creatures that "can't possibly exist, are just legends and mythology", but now reside in our zoos...

Now we're getting into cryptozoology, which is a fascinating pseudoscience that speculates about how extinct or extant animals may be the source behind legendary creatures. As you say, gorillas, Komodo dragons, and coelocanths were thought to be fictional or long gone, and sure enough, here they are. Ditto for okapis, giant squid, eagle-owls, and giant softshell turtles. All of that is great, but lets look at examples that don't hold up.

Bigfoot - There's simply no reliable evidence that any bipedal apes other than humans have ever been established in North America.
Yeti - If other hominids besides humans have ever lived at altitude in Asia, then there's no good evidence that they're still there.
Loch Ness Monster - Research indicates that even if plesiosaurs were still around, Loch Ness could not support them.

The only dinosaurs humans have ever lived with are birds. All the other ones died many millions of years before the first apes ever evolved. That bas relief figure in Cambodia may be a bit reminiscent of a stegosaur, but it's probably just supposed to be a bovine or rhino with decorations on its back.

.....a cool link about where the word Dragon and Dinosaur came from http://www.forbidden-history.com/dinosaurfacts-owen.html

But I guess the question remains... what did eat those cows?

The Chinese use the word "lung" to refer both to mythical dragons and prehistoric dinosaurs. Indeed, the myth of the dragon probably comes partly from the fossil bones of dinosaurs and other prehistorical animals, as well as living crocodilians, lizards, and fish.

But again, other than birds, humans have never lived alongside dinosaurs.

A few questions then, if I may...

How long did you spend in The Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) and how well did you get to know some of the folks who've lived there all of their lives, so knew quite well what animals were present?

And what did make the footprints I saw, footprints that were obviously not those of Forest elephants (Loxodonta cyclotis), of which I saw on a few occasions, nor any kind of rhino (which do not occur there at all)?

And, finally, on what do you base your assumption that an very wise and very honest elder of the village I was assigned misled me, yet benefited in no tangible way, when I asked him about said footprints, about something he once watched, for over an hour, from a distance of approximately 30 yards?

Seeing as you speak authoritatively on such matters...

 

[ra94131]

This time will come for the rest of the world soon enough... I'd say we're pretty much there already.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

A few questions then, if I may...

How long did you spend in The Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) and how well did you get to know some of the folks who've lived there all of their lives, so knew quite well what animals were present?

And what did make the footprints I saw, footprints that were obviously not those of Forest elephants (Loxodonta cyclotis), of which I saw on a few occasions, nor any kind of rhino (which do not occur there at all)?

And, finally, on what do you base your assumption that an very wise and very honest elder of the village I was assigned misled me, yet benefited in no tangible way, when I asked him about said footprints, about something he once watched, for over an hour, from a distance of approximately 30 yards?

Seeing as you speak authoritatively on such matters...

I have been to Africa, but never DR Congo. I did not meet such people as you described, nor did I see such signs as you saw. Please tell us more about your experiences, and please share any photos you may have collected.

Science does a good job of eventually figuring out whether the anecdotes of local people are accurate observations, or largely fictional myths. My favorite legendary animal (cryptid) is the Mapinguari, which is a kind of South American "Bigfoot." However, rather than an ape-man, it's supposed to be a more exotic beast. Careful reading of the myth reveals surprising similarities with extinct giant ground sloths, especially Mylodon darwinii. We know that humans did once have contact with ground sloths, and may have even hunted them to extinction. Therefore, this Mapinguari could represent a folk memory of a time when people actually used to interact with these animals. Some think that ground sloths could still be out there in South America somewhere. That's not impossible, but it is highly unlikely.

I am familiar with the legend of Mokele-Mbembe, and therefore feel qualified to comment on it. Mokele-Mbembe (lit. "one who stops the flow of rivers") is supposedly a large, long-necked beast. Some people think it refers to a still-surviving population of sauropod dinosaurs. The 80s movie Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend popularized this myth. Again, it's not impossible that sauropods survived in remote parts of the African rainforest. However, it is even more unlikely than the Mapinguari. Here's why.

Sauropods have been extinct far longer than ground sloths. Ground sloths died out some 10,000 years ago, apparently due to human overhunting, and possibly also due to climate change. In contrast, the mass extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs took place about 65 million years ago. Whatever caused the mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous Period (asteroid, volcanoes, methane, or some combination of these), it appears to have annihilated all large, specialized terrestrial animals. Only aquatic animals of various sizes, small terrestrial animals, and omnivores of various types survived. This is probably because the resource base for the big specialists disappeared. Only the more adaptable animals were able to make it. Sauropods, like today's elephants, were big herbivores with likely big appetites, making them vulnerable to disturbances in the vegetation.

The world has also changed considerably since the Cretaceous. Atmospheric gas compositions have changed, and percent oxygen and CO2 have decreased. What's more, the world's tropical rainforests have expanded and contracted many times since then. It is unlikely that adequate resources would persist for large sauropods, particularly if they had to compete with large mammals such as elephants, rhinos, and bovines.

Sauropods have been absent from the fossil record for 65 million years. It's true that coelocanths and some other animals are known as Lazarus taxa, because they appeared to die out, only to be "resurrected" (i.e. reappear in the fossil record or in life) millions of years later. However, such a phenomenon would be very unlikely for large, terrestrial animals like sauropods. Lazarus taxa are usually not particularly large, or aquatic, or both. Sauropods and other giants should be easier to observe, both as fossils and as living animals.

It's true that okapis and gorillas are two African rainforest animals that were once thought to be mythical, and that later turned out to be real. However, both of these are mammals, and related to other well-known animals (giraffes and humans, respectively). In contrast, sauropods have no surviving close relatives. Birds are the only dinosaurs left, and the only other surviving archosaurs are the crocodilians. Neither of these is particularly closely related, nor ecologically similar, to sauropods.

It would be fascinating to figure out what kinds of prints you saw, and what kind of animal the person you spoke with had observed. I'm sure they were large and impressive animals, and who knows, they might even be new to science. But the odds of there being sauropod dinosaurs is extremely small. It would be so cool if there really were such creatures as Mokele-Mbembe, Nessie, and Bigfoot. However, even if they're based on real extinct animals, today they are merely legends.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I have long thought that some of the weirder animals alive today are actually evolved dinosaurs that didn't become extinct in the big dinosaur die off. Rhino, for example. Elephant. The bigger lizards. And now we find dragons!!! Wonder how big they get?

You might enjoy this:

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StYPm3fU5Gs&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Chinque]

Thank you, everyone, for all your comments and your interest on the matter. I really appreciate it. But Gomberg's question still stands; Who ate those cows?

 

[ra94131]

Thank you, everyone, for all your comments and your interest on the matter. I really appreciate it. But Gomberg's question still stands; Who ate those cows?

If that article had any credibility, the animal would supposedly be halfway to 15,000 lbs by now. Where are the pictures? I am very skeptical about all cryptids, but I'm positive this one is fake.

There are numerous places the cattle could go and the article is so vague, they more than likely never existed and there's no way to "investigate" their disappearance.

 

[Chinque]

Thank you, everyone, for all your comments and your interest on the matter. I really appreciate it. But Gomberg's question still stands; Who ate those cows?

If that article had any credibility, the animal would supposedly be halfway to 15,000 lbs by now. Where are the pictures? I am very skeptical about all cryptids, but I'm positive this one is fake.

There are numerous places the cattle could go and the article is so vague, they more than likely never existed and there's no way to "investigate" their disappearance.

Asked in the nicest way possible; Did you actually read the article? Or just my summary?
The cows couldn't have gone anywhere and the only way to leave would have been by air. It WAS NOT POSSIBLE for the cattle to have been airlifted by a helicopter. The article clearly states that by their growing rate, the dragons would near 15,000 lbs at their adult age

 

[ra94131]

Thank you, everyone, for all your comments and your interest on the matter. I really appreciate it. But Gomberg's question still stands; Who ate those cows?

If that article had any credibility, the animal would supposedly be halfway to 15,000 lbs by now. Where are the pictures? I am very skeptical about all cryptids, but I'm positive this one is fake.

There are numerous places the cattle could go and the article is so vague, they more than likely never existed and there's no way to "investigate" their disappearance.

Asked in the nicest way possible; Did you actually read the article? Or just my summary?
The cows couldn't have gone anywhere and the only way to leave would have been by air. It WAS NOT POSSIBLE for the cattle to have been airlifted by a helicopter. The article clearly states that by their growing rate, the dragons would near 15,000 lbs at their adult age

Yes, I did read the article. See below quote from the article dated March 6, 2012.

Barely a week old, Agni can expect to triple his current size within a month based on his current growth rate. He currently feeds mainly on insects but will soon graduate to small rodents and birds. In 2-3 years it is speculated that only larger animals such as the local Indonesian cattle will be enough to sustain his massive size (about 10-15 thousand pounds).

My point about the cows is that the article provides no direct evidence or proper citation of evidence that the cows existed and/or subsequently disappeared. It is purely anecdotal and therefore any attempt to provide explanation has little to no starting point. Not to mention, lack of tracks is insufficient proof in the first place that it was lifted into the air. (Plus have you seen the impressions that birds of prey leave in snow/loose dirt? I bet a 10k-15k creature would make one hell of an impression.)

Not to mention the fact that these are obviously (as previously mentioned) members of the genus Draco.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_lizard