Jacqui you made some very valid points in your post.
Redfoot NERD said:RichardA said:I cannot agree with not buying from shops.....I used to work for a large family owned pet store that buys from breeders. So the torts they carry are CB juvies. And most all others around here also buy from wholesalers that buy from breeders. So the whole taking them out of the wild thing is not across the board true.
Now, what I do say is this.
ASK! Simply ask them. And also dont purhase animals that the store is neglecting. If you buy it they will order more. I am also guilty of doing this....lol....."saving" them. Large chain stores have no business carrying these animals if they are not gonna take the time to do it right.
My 2 pennies.
Remember everybody.. those 4" RF you see most likely came from the "Farm" in Venezuela.
And RichardA there are always exceptions and extremes.. so I commend 'your' pet store!
Don't get mad at me.. be honest with yourself.. if you're asking for advice instead of giving it - you're a 'newbie'! We all have to start somewhere.
I'm about to make my statement... ( most of it has been said already ).
Terry
RichardA said:Redfoot NERD said:RichardA said:I cannot agree with not buying from shops.....I used to work for a large family owned pet store that buys from breeders. So the torts they carry are CB juvies. And most all others around here also buy from wholesalers that buy from breeders. So the whole taking them out of the wild thing is not across the board true.
Now, what I do say is this.
ASK! Simply ask them. And also dont purhase animals that the store is neglecting. If you buy it they will order more. I am also guilty of doing this....lol....."saving" them. Large chain stores have no business carrying these animals if they are not gonna take the time to do it right.
My 2 pennies.
Remember everybody.. those 4" RF you see most likely came from the "Farm" in Venezuela.
And RichardA there are always exceptions and extremes.. so I commend 'your' pet store!
Don't get mad at me.. be honest with yourself.. if you're asking for advice instead of giving it - you're a 'newbie'! We all have to start somewhere.
I'm about to make my statement... ( most of it has been said already ).
Terry
Just to be clear.....I meant ask where they buy from. If they buy from a breeder they will know and tell you, if they say from our supply house they are just ordering without any regard to well being of the animal. Like I said before, all but a handful of shops statewide here buy from the same wholesaler, who in turn buys from our local breeders as well as a few out of state breeders....
The area I live in we have 3 of the top Ball Python producers as well as 3-5 of the larger Tort and Turt breeders.
That is all I meant by my post, buying from a store is not always out of the question.
PS: I am talking about family owned pet shops....NOT chain stores.....they have little to zero knowledge of anything they sell, animals or dry goods.
RichardA said:EJ
what are you talking about.....I never said the farms didnt exist......I simply stated that here they do not buy from them, nor did I when I had my business going. I have personally been to the facilities where the ones here come from....my wifes tort came from one of them.
Redfoot NERD said:I wonder how much longer this is going on?
Don't buy torts from pet stores! Was strictly an attention-getter.. not a statement.
In the body ( 4th sentence ) of this thread is where I asked how you felt about buying from pet stores. Why would anyone think I was suggesting to only buy from a breeder.. [ because I am one ]? Ask any of us [ breeder's ] what % of our hatchlings end up with those met on a forum. I would like to see more.. because forum members seem to be more concerned and willing to learn than others do. We couldn't feed our colony for a month.. from the proceeds of selling to forum members.. in a YEARS time! Why do y'all think I'm even here.. posting pics and sharing years of experince? And asking Q?'s to get you to think and participate.. which leads to more Q?'s and more answers!
Why do you think.........?
Terry
-EJ said:Redfoot NERD said:I wonder how much longer this is going on?
Don't buy torts from pet stores! Was strictly an attention-getter.. not a statement.
In the body ( 4th sentence ) of this thread is where I asked how you felt about buying from pet stores. Why would anyone think I was suggesting to only buy from a breeder.. [ because I am one ]? Ask any of us [ breeder's ] what % of our hatchlings end up with those met on a forum. I would like to see more.. because forum members seem to be more concerned and willing to learn than others do. We couldn't feed our colony for a month.. from the proceeds of selling to forum members.. in a YEARS time! Why do y'all think I'm even here.. posting pics and sharing years of experince? And asking Q?'s to get you to think and participate.. which leads to more Q?'s and more answers!
Why do you think.........?
Terry
You seem to have gotten quite a few peoples attention. This is one of those seriously debatable questions.
what got my attention was the you seemed to contradict yourself on some points bit maybe it was how I read it.
This is a hobby that is based on the pet trade whether we like to admit it or not.
The pet shop whether it is a mom/pop or chain serves a function that does help this hobby.
I don't think any one of us... keeper... breeder... hobbyest... could stand alone without the aid of these shops... but that's just me.
(crap... I ran out of things to say)
JustAnja said:All I can say is I am glad this forum is not run like a Nazi war camp and we do have the freedom of free thought and speech here. This forum IS different.
cvalda said:Terry, I understand that you are frustrated because many of the replies to this question are not what you wanted to hear. I can't speak for everyone here, but please know that the great majority of us do respect you and value your opinions, insight and understanding on tortoises and tortoise care (I know I definately do)!
When a question is posed that makes people think, and think HARD, (as yours did) you are going to run the whole gamut of answers and thoughts on it. That does not mean that people respect you less, or that they respect tortoises less or that they're not going to do the best possible that they can do for their pets, or even that they're not willing to learn (in most cases, anyway)!
Your questions don't shade our opinions of you, and I hope our answers don't shade your opinion of us! We're all here for the same reason - tortoises and to gain more knowledge and understanding of them and their care (in all aspects). Some of us have more learning to do than others! Some of you can offer more teaching on the subject! So keep up the good work, don't get frustrated, don't take differing opinions to heart, and keep on loving those tortoises the way you do!!!!