Dominant relationship?

[genetic_code]

I got Nebula(bigger one) few days back into this enclosure. So it's small right now. Autumn (smaller) has been very active since beginning. Nebula on the other hand is not so active. Autumn used to follow Nebula initially. I came across a thread which listed following as one the behaviours of dominant relationship.

Today when I was feeding both of them, I noticed that Nebula wouldn't eat when Autumn was eating. He started eating when Autumn was asleep and as soon as Autumn woke up, he stopped eating for a while and they got engaged in some kind of staring competition. This has happened for the first time since I got Nebula.

They always sleep together under one shed. Moreover today I saw them sleeping with their necks extended around each other.
Is all this suggestive of dominant- submissive relationship?? What should I do? Though I've never seen them biting each other anytime.
And I will be getting a new and bigger enclosure soon.

 

[JoesMum]

They must be separated. Permanently.

These tortoises are a solitary species. They don’t want or need company. In the wild they roam miles, meet up to mate and move on. Another tortoise is a rival for food and territory that’s all.

Kept as a pair there is always a dominant tortoise and a subordinate one. Sleeping together isn’t cute; it’s the dominant tortoise trying to make the subordinate tortoise uncomfortable and leave.

The subordinate one is being so badly that it has now stopped eating. This is to be expected.

Unless you separate them immediately and permanently the subordinate tortoise will become sick and could well die.

 

[genetic_code]

They must be separated. Permanently.

These tortoises are a solitary species. They don’t want or need company. In the wild they roam miles, meet up to mate and move on. Another tortoise is a rival for food and territory that’s all.

Kept as a pair there is always a dominant tortoise and a subordinate one. Sleeping together isn’t cute; it’s the dominant tortoise trying to make the subordinate tortoise uncomfortable and leave.

The subordinate one is being so badly that it has now stopped eating. This is to be expected.

Unless you separate them immediately and permanently the subordinate tortoise will become sick and could well die.

Alright. Just getting few things corrected here. None of them has stopped eating, it was an incident today that Nebula stopped chewing for a minute and stared at the other tortoise. Then he got back to munching.
They usually face different directions while sleeping but slowly both of them move towards each other. Like they are sleeping right now.
I have seen Indian stars growing in groups without any difficulties. Will it be too soon to rule out dominant- submissive behaviours?

 

[JoesMum]

No it is never too soon. And it’s not dependent on gender or relationship either.

The dynamics of groups are different to pairs. In a group no single tortoise is subjected to bullying all of the time... usually. In a pair there is no escape. Pairs invariably have to be separated - groups may or may not succeed, but there are no guarantees.

A very large enclosure with plenty of plants to break up sight-lines helps with groups.

 

[genetic_code]

No it is never too soon. And it’s not dependent on gender or relationship either.

The dynamics of groups are different to pairs. In a group no single tortoise is subjected to bullying all of the time... usually. In a pair there is no escape. Pairs invariably have to be separated - groups may or may not succeed, but there are no guarantees.

A very large enclosure with plenty of plants to break up sight-lines helps with groups.

Ok then. I'm glad we picked it up early. I'll make separate enclosures for them. [emoji51]

 

[Tom]

I have seen Indian stars growing in groups without any difficulties. Will it be too soon to rule out dominant- submissive behaviours?

I agree with JoesMum. Groups are different than a pair. Groups of juveniles, or adult groups with one male can usually work. With Indian stars I've seen groups with multiple adult males do okay too. But not pairs.

Your tortoises are gorgeous, by the way.

 

[jsheffield]

How do the enclosure size needs change as the group shifts from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 torts?

Thanks,

Jamie

 

[Tom]

How do the enclosure size needs change as the group shifts from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 torts?

Thanks,

Jamie

There is no scientifically determined set square footage. The bigger the better. The more sight barriers and "wings" of the enclosure the better.