David Passed a Large Kidney Stone...can you help

[cajf]

I went outside to check on my 4.5 year old Sulcata David this morning and I noticed this ball in his water dish, right next to some of his usual urates. When I tried to squeeze it I couldn't, it's literally as hard as a rock. His urates have always seemed normal and he has never passed something this big.

Can anyone help me with what I need to do next? He passed this sometime this morning because when I went out to feed him early there was nothing in the dish and now a few hours later its there.

I feel like I have done something wrong and that is why he has passed this stone. I feed David spring mix and timothy hay in his enclosure and during the day he is out in the pasture eating grass. I feed him treats of carrots and pumpkin maybe once a week. He always has water available and uses it.

Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

 

[matt41gb]

That's too large to be a passed kidney stone. Something that size would require a cystotomy. It's probably uric acid that dried up near the anus, and the soak may have softened it up enough to pass.

-Matt

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes thats a stone. It was most likely formed in his bladder. Stones and urates are 2 totally seperate thing. Urates are the by-product of protein break down in the body and stones are almost always calcium oxalates. Calcium oxalates are formed when food with oxalic acid are broken down and the free oxalic acid combines with calcium. It usually starts with gritty sand (very small balls) that are passed with urates or feces. If some of these small balls stay in the bladder, the body will just keep adding calcium oxalate. This makes the small balls into stones in no time. Sometimes you get lucky and the stones are passed before they get to large to be passed (in your case). Other times they get to large to be passed and surgery is needed to remove them.
You have to take a good look at his diet and limit the foods with a medium to high oxalic acid content.
You might want to take a look at your spring mix and see if it contains spinach (high in oxalic acid) and chard (medium in oxalic acid).

Danny

 

[TortieLuver]

How does he seem to be doing? Fortunate for him he was able to pass it without surgery. Do you give him warm soaks?

 

[matt41gb]

Egyptiandan, how on earth did he pass that thing?? At work we have to take those suckers out of dogs beit struvite, or calcium oxalate when they're that size. How did that travel through the urinary tract on its own? At first glance that looked just like a calcium oxalate stone since I see them all the time, I just couldn't fathom him passing it. Learn me.

-Matt

 

[cajf]

Thank you everyone for helping out yesterday. I had trouble finding my thread once I posted it, but I got it figured out.

Yesterday David was being his usual self, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. He was eating just fine and was not lethargic at all.

Like I said in my original post, I feed him organic spring mix along with other goodies. I took a look at the ingredients in the spring mix and sure enough there is chard listed. It also has the disclaimer that some ingredients may vary and after digging through the box I found a few pieces of spinach.

I'm sure that mix of oxalic acid is enough to have caused this stone. I went to the store and got him some new greens that will last until I can make my own spring mix.

Again, thank you everyone for helping out.

 

[egyptiandan]

It's because the bladder on a tortoise is different than a bladder in a mammal. In a mammal the bladder is connected to the outside world by a very skinny tube. Which ties in with the fact that we urinate through our reproductive organs. Tortoises don't do this, everything comes out the same hole so to speak. The bladder on a tortoise is located off of the large intestine. It has a large and elastic opening into the large intestine. This makes it quite possible to pass large objects from the bladder to the outside world. The main problem with passing a stone for a tortoise is whether it will fit through the pelvic girdle or not.

Danny

 

[Tom]

Just one more tip for you. Even though you have water available, it doesn't mean they use it. My sulcatas have mostly ignored standing bowls of water except to trudge through it on their way to tending to important business on the other side of the enclosure.

Since you have now seen this problem I'd suggest regular warm water soaks for David. I'd do it every day for a while, then maybe cut back to three or four time a week.

Also, what weeds is grazing on out in the pasture? Might you have some oxalis out there. It looks an awful lot like clover and they'll readily eat it.