couple Hermann q's

[bakexlove]

How big do they get and also can you put one with a Russian?

 

[GBtortoises]

How big they may get depends somewhat on which subspecies you're referring too as well as the geographical origin of an individual. Easterns and Dalmatians are the most commonly available in the U.S. with Westerns being much more rare and about 3x the price. Below are the average adult sizes of each subspecies, keep in mind there are always going to be mature adult examples smaller and larger based on individual populations.

Easterns: males-5.5-6.5"/females-6-8"
Dalmatians: males-5-6"/females-5-7"
Westerns: males-5"-5.5"/females-5-7"

While Russians are similar genetically to Hermann's they come from very different environments in the wild. In captivity if both are to be kept as they should be, they do have some different requirements. Compromising those conditions in order to attempt to provide for both species is usually of no benefit to either species. Along with that, Russians and Hermann's are so close genetically that there has been cases of them interbreeding in captivity, something that is usually considered undesirable to most keepers and should not be encouraged. For that reason and to limit the exposure to foreign pathogens it is generally not a good idea to mix most species. This is usually much less of an issue if both animals are known to be captive born with no previous exposure to wild caught tortoises. However, the difference in environmental requirements and the fact that they can produce hybrid offspring still makes it a bad idea to attempt to house Russians and Hermann's within the same enclosure.

 

[bakexlove]

Can you mix any breeds? And why is it undesirable?

 

[GBtortoises]

Different species often come from very different environments in the wild. In captivity if both are to be kept as they should be, they may have very different requirements. Compromising those conditions in order to attempt to provide for both species is usually of no benefit to either species. Some tortoises of different species are close enough genetically that they may be able to interbreed in captivity and produce viable offspring. This is something that is usually considered undesirable to most keepers and should not be encouraged. For that reason and to limit the exposure to foreign pathogens it is generally not a good idea to mix most species. Species from very different climates often carry different pathogens that another species may not be able to withstand, often leading to death. This is usually much less of an issue if both animals are known to be captive born with no previous exposure to wild caught tortoises. However, the difference in environmental requirements and the fact that they may be able to produce hybrid offspring alone are valid reasons not to mix most different species.

Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-couple-Hermann-q-s#ixzz1kl0Ee9wI

 

[Tom]

There is also the point that their personalities are very different and Russians can be very aggressive. I have also seen plenty of disease transmission between captive bred animals too.

 

[GBtortoises]

Male Hermann's of all three subspecies are often also very aggressive, but normally just with there own species. The fact that Hermann's (all three) subspecies and Russian tortoises come from very different environments in the wild should be an indicator that they will also require some differences in captivity and therefore really should not be housed together.

Pathogens can be transmitted between captive bred tortoises as well as between wild caught tortoises or from wild caught tortoises. The differences are exposure and origin. Often wild caughts, particularly relatively new imports, are overwhelmed with various pathogens and parasites due mostly to stress from being collected, shipped, overcrowed and out of their familiar environment. This is usually much less of an issue with captive born tortoises.

 

[bubbles01]

As for the size - My biggest female, Bella is already at 8 1/2 inches and still growing - she has lovely new growth on her shell from this summer. If you hunt back through my threads there is also one regarding my Neighbour's Hermanns - Fred who is 120 years old and over 11 inches long...

I personally wouldn't mix the species up - agree with what Gary says regarding interbreeding etc, but also Hermanns are nowhere near as prevalent as they used to be, certainly in the UK, so I feel anybody breeding them should be trying to add to the species not mix it with another.

INHO...obviously....

Helen x

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

As for the size - My biggest female, Bella is already at 8 1/2 inches and still growing - she has lovely new growth on her shell from this summer. If you hunt back through my threads there is also one regarding my Neighbour's Hermanns - Fred who is 120 years old and over 11 inches long...

I personally wouldn't mix the species up - agree with what Gary says regarding interbreeding etc, but also Hermanns are nowhere near as prevalent as they used to be, certainly in the UK, so I feel anybody breeding them should be trying to add to the species not mix it with another.IMO...obviously....

Helen x

2nd this!