Confused beginner with a hermann's

Botond

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
6
Location (City and/or State)
Szeged
Hello Everyone!

I'm kind of new to this forum, I've been reading a dozen of threads in the last couple of months, and have learned many things, but I feel like the more I read, the more confused and overwhelmed I am with all this information out here.
(and I know, all of my following questions have already been answered, I've read a lot of them as well, but as I said, I'm just confused?)
I've got a hermann's tortoise 3 months ago, who was born in 2019 according to his papers, and (of course, like every nice people here) would like to give him the best life I can.

He currently lives in a cool viking-style (only for my pleasure, sadly he doesn't know how cool that is) 2 level tortoise table. The bottom floor is 30.7x20.9" (78x53 cm), and the top floor is 10.2x20.9" (26x53 cm), which I will attach picture of.
His ramp will be ribbed, so he can walk up easier.
As I read, the 2 most preferred beddings were cypress mulch and coco coir. Sadly there is literally no cypress mulch where I live. I've tried coco coir, but it molded like crazy after just 3-4 days.
As for now, he has minced cob as a bedding, with some rocks, but I believe it is really dry for him. I also didn't really like the smell of the coco coir, as the tortoise is in the same room, where I am almost 24/7.
I soak him around every 2-4 days, and recently added a little water dish, what he loves.
They gave us I think the most basic tortoise food, what honestly I don't know what exactly contains, but I will attach a picture of that too, hopefully some more experienced keepers will know if that food is ok for him. It is not fluffly, and easy to break, like basic turtle foods, it's actually pretty solid.
I feed him 2 times a day with 3 pieces of this given food mixed with a calcium powder, and some water.
He currently only has a 25W heat bulb, with no UVB. The heat bulb is on for 10 hours a day (sometimes a little longer, if I feed him later)
The temperature in the room where the tortoise table is is around 75-81 fahrenheit (24-27 Celsius).
And also, I plan to get a thermostat, so I can keep track on the degrees, and the humidity.

The question after this long intrudoction is..well..almost everything.
1. I know, it's not ideal to feed him with only this food, what other things I should feed him with?

2. Most people say that you need an UVB lamp, some people say that if you put him outside for a couple of hours every few days, it should be fine.
I live in Hungary, in a small apartment, so sadly an outdoor enclosure is not an option here, but I have a balcony, where I think it would be good for him if I put him out every now and then.
I wonder if that UVB is enough for him, or I should get a lamp.
And if that UVB is enough, what the temperature should be so I can put him outside for a couple of hours.

3. It doesn't matter that he has a water bowl, I should still soak him, right?

4. What other bedding would be suitable for him? As I read, pine mulch is not suitable, and maybe nut tree mulch is not suitable as well. I guess self mowed (not store bought) lawn is not suitable for him as well.

5. As for humidity, I've read a lot of different percentages, what should it be, if someone would clarify what it should really be I would appreciate it.

6. I'm thinking of putting some grass inside his enclosure, so he always have access to fresh grass, if that is safe.

7. What the temperature at the basking spot should be?

8. The problem is, when he gets into the water, and comes out of it wet, the cob bedding sticks to him everywhere, like to his neck, and if i don't get them off of him, they stick around in places like that, what I believe should hurt him. How can I fix that, or is that really hurting him?

9. Is that 10 hour cycle for the basking lamp is enough?

10. And I would appreciate any kind of advice about anything (like what to put in his enclosure, so it would be more interesting to him, etc.), beacuse I know I didn't cover a lot of things, and as soon as I post this, I will be "dang..how could I forgot to ask this"

Thank you for reading this thread with my silly mess of questions, but I know everyone starts here?
Appreciate the advices in advance.

And finally, here are a cool shot about my hermann's, Ernő, the little conqueror of The World?️IMG_20210404_205809.jpgIMG_20210404_225312.jpgIMG_20210404_225340.jpgIMG_20210404_225519.jpgIMG_20210405_000758.jpg
 

S2G

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Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
98
Location (City and/or State)
AL
They basically eat yard weeds like dandelions which you can look up to see what's safe. I keep mine 78-80F ambient. 95-100F basking. 12% Arcadia t5 ho on 4hrs a day. Humidity I like to stay around 50-70%. The basking side I use a 100w incandescent flood light that I raised until I got the temp I was looking for. The other side has a ceramic heat element on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps. The UV t5 is on a timer & runs in between the other two. I used 100% organic top soil, cypress mulch, & some sand for drainage. I use a terracotta saucer they use under flower pots sunk in the dirt as a water dish & a piece of slate I feed on. Mines roughly 3-4yrs & I soak in warm water 3x a week. I would soak more & keep humidity higher for yours.

Here's a good caresheet for you.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello Everyone!

I'm kind of new to this forum, I've been reading a dozen of threads in the last couple of months, and have learned many things, but I feel like the more I read, the more confused and overwhelmed I am with all this information out here.
(and I know, all of my following questions have already been answered, I've read a lot of them as well, but as I said, I'm just confused?)
I've got a hermann's tortoise 3 months ago, who was born in 2019 according to his papers, and (of course, like every nice people here) would like to give him the best life I can.

He currently lives in a cool viking-style (only for my pleasure, sadly he doesn't know how cool that is) 2 level tortoise table. The bottom floor is 30.7x20.9" (78x53 cm), and the top floor is 10.2x20.9" (26x53 cm), which I will attach picture of.
His ramp will be ribbed, so he can walk up easier.
As I read, the 2 most preferred beddings were cypress mulch and coco coir. Sadly there is literally no cypress mulch where I live. I've tried coco coir, but it molded like crazy after just 3-4 days.
As for now, he has minced cob as a bedding, with some rocks, but I believe it is really dry for him. I also didn't really like the smell of the coco coir, as the tortoise is in the same room, where I am almost 24/7.
I soak him around every 2-4 days, and recently added a little water dish, what he loves.
They gave us I think the most basic tortoise food, what honestly I don't know what exactly contains, but I will attach a picture of that too, hopefully some more experienced keepers will know if that food is ok for him. It is not fluffly, and easy to break, like basic turtle foods, it's actually pretty solid.
I feed him 2 times a day with 3 pieces of this given food mixed with a calcium powder, and some water.
He currently only has a 25W heat bulb, with no UVB. The heat bulb is on for 10 hours a day (sometimes a little longer, if I feed him later)
The temperature in the room where the tortoise table is is around 75-81 fahrenheit (24-27 Celsius).
And also, I plan to get a thermostat, so I can keep track on the degrees, and the humidity.

The question after this long intrudoction is..well..almost everything.
1. I know, it's not ideal to feed him with only this food, what other things I should feed him with?

2. Most people say that you need an UVB lamp, some people say that if you put him outside for a couple of hours every few days, it should be fine.
I live in Hungary, in a small apartment, so sadly an outdoor enclosure is not an option here, but I have a balcony, where I think it would be good for him if I put him out every now and then.
I wonder if that UVB is enough for him, or I should get a lamp.
And if that UVB is enough, what the temperature should be so I can put him outside for a couple of hours.

3. It doesn't matter that he has a water bowl, I should still soak him, right?

4. What other bedding would be suitable for him? As I read, pine mulch is not suitable, and maybe nut tree mulch is not suitable as well. I guess self mowed (not store bought) lawn is not suitable for him as well.

5. As for humidity, I've read a lot of different percentages, what should it be, if someone would clarify what it should really be I would appreciate it.

6. I'm thinking of putting some grass inside his enclosure, so he always have access to fresh grass, if that is safe.

7. What the temperature at the basking spot should be?

8. The problem is, when he gets into the water, and comes out of it wet, the cob bedding sticks to him everywhere, like to his neck, and if i don't get them off of him, they stick around in places like that, what I believe should hurt him. How can I fix that, or is that really hurting him?

9. Is that 10 hour cycle for the basking lamp is enough?

10. And I would appreciate any kind of advice about anything (like what to put in his enclosure, so it would be more interesting to him, etc.), beacuse I know I didn't cover a lot of things, and as soon as I post this, I will be "dang..how could I forgot to ask this"

Thank you for reading this thread with my silly mess of questions, but I know everyone starts here?
Appreciate the advices in advance.

And finally, here are a cool shot about my hermann's, Ernő, the little conqueror of The World?️View attachment 322494View attachment 322495View attachment 322496View attachment 322497View attachment 322498
All of your questions are answered here:

I'll still answer one at a time:
1. Too much to type. Its in the care sheet. They aren't grass eaters, and be sure to not use sod. Sod can have toxic chemicals and dangerous netting in it, and grass won't live indoors anyway.
2. Out on the balcony a couple times a week in a safe enclosure is enough. No need for a bulb.
3. Yes. Soak babies every day until they pass 100 grams.
4. The corn cob stuff is likely to kill I'm through impaction. Get it out of there ASAP. Buy reptil-bark. Coco coir doesn't mold, so it sounds like you have the wrong stuff. That is best for babies. Use a thick layer and hand pack it firmly.
5. Shoot for 50-70%. Use damp substrate, a humid hide, and soak daily.
6. No. See number one.
7. 95-100F (36C).
8. Get rid of the corn cob bedding ASAP.
9. No. At least 12 hours. 13 is better. The basking lamp is supposed to simulate the sun. 10 hours day are mid winter and that will make him want to hibernate.
10. Logs, large rocks, potted plants.
 

Yossarian

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Nov 21, 2015
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813
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I have never seen coco mold, but I would also reccomend orchid bark for your enclosure. It is going to be pretty difficult to keep humidity up with this enclosure as well, maybe impossible depending on your climate.
 

Botond

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
6
Location (City and/or State)
Szeged
I will put a plastic bag underneath the bedding, I hope that will help with the humidity
And of course, if I can't reach the desired %, I will make changes of his enclosure
 

Yossarian

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Messages
813
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If you can find it, pond liner is good for lining tables, completely waterproof and durable.

fyi, orchid bark and repti-bark are the same thing - they are basically a fine grade fir tree bark.
 

Botond

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Joined
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Messages
6
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Szeged
Yes, I also have it, and tried to use it, just didn't have a glue gun in hand to the sides to stay in place, because it is old, and doesn't bend anymore.

And yes, I just realized that as well, needless to say that simple fact saved me a lots of unnecessarily spent money.
 

Yossarian

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Joined
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Messages
813
Location (City and/or State)
Wales
Yes, I also have it, and tried to use it, just didn't have a glue gun in hand to the sides to stay in place, because it is old, and doesn't bend anymore.

And yes, I just realized that as well, needless to say that simple fact saved me a lots of unnecessarily spent money.

With pond liner, if you have a blow drier heat the liner up it becomes much more pliable. I always used a staple gun with mine and make it deep so you can put several inches depth of bark.

This allows it to hold a lot of water.
 

LJL1982

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
UK
Hello Everyone!

I'm kind of new to this forum, I've been reading a dozen of threads in the last couple of months, and have learned many things, but I feel like the more I read, the more confused and overwhelmed I am with all this information out here.
(and I know, all of my following questions have already been answered, I've read a lot of them as well, but as I said, I'm just confused?)
I've got a hermann's tortoise 3 months ago, who was born in 2019 according to his papers, and (of course, like every nice people here) would like to give him the best life I can.

He currently lives in a cool viking-style (only for my pleasure, sadly he doesn't know how cool that is) 2 level tortoise table. The bottom floor is 30.7x20.9" (78x53 cm), and the top floor is 10.2x20.9" (26x53 cm), which I will attach picture of.
His ramp will be ribbed, so he can walk up easier.
As I read, the 2 most preferred beddings were cypress mulch and coco coir. Sadly there is literally no cypress mulch where I live. I've tried coco coir, but it molded like crazy after just 3-4 days.
As for now, he has minced cob as a bedding, with some rocks, but I believe it is really dry for him. I also didn't really like the smell of the coco coir, as the tortoise is in the same room, where I am almost 24/7.
I soak him around every 2-4 days, and recently added a little water dish, what he loves.
They gave us I think the most basic tortoise food, what honestly I don't know what exactly contains, but I will attach a picture of that too, hopefully some more experienced keepers will know if that food is ok for him. It is not fluffly, and easy to break, like basic turtle foods, it's actually pretty solid.
I feed him 2 times a day with 3 pieces of this given food mixed with a calcium powder, and some water.
He currently only has a 25W heat bulb, with no UVB. The heat bulb is on for 10 hours a day (sometimes a little longer, if I feed him later)
The temperature in the room where the tortoise table is is around 75-81 fahrenheit (24-27 Celsius).
And also, I plan to get a thermostat, so I can keep track on the degrees, and the humidity.

The question after this long intrudoction is..well..almost everything.
1. I know, it's not ideal to feed him with only this food, what other things I should feed him with?

2. Most people say that you need an UVB lamp, some people say that if you put him outside for a couple of hours every few days, it should be fine.
I live in Hungary, in a small apartment, so sadly an outdoor enclosure is not an option here, but I have a balcony, where I think it would be good for him if I put him out every now and then.
I wonder if that UVB is enough for him, or I should get a lamp.
And if that UVB is enough, what the temperature should be so I can put him outside for a couple of hours.

3. It doesn't matter that he has a water bowl, I should still soak him, right?

4. What other bedding would be suitable for him? As I read, pine mulch is not suitable, and maybe nut tree mulch is not suitable as well. I guess self mowed (not store bought) lawn is not suitable for him as well.

5. As for humidity, I've read a lot of different percentages, what should it be, if someone would clarify what it should really be I would appreciate it.

6. I'm thinking of putting some grass inside his enclosure, so he always have access to fresh grass, if that is safe.

7. What the temperature at the basking spot should be?

8. The problem is, when he gets into the water, and comes out of it wet, the cob bedding sticks to him everywhere, like to his neck, and if i don't get them off of him, they stick around in places like that, what I believe should hurt him. How can I fix that, or is that really hurting him?

9. Is that 10 hour cycle for the basking lamp is enough?

10. And I would appreciate any kind of advice about anything (like what to put in his enclosure, so it would be more interesting to him, etc.), beacuse I know I didn't cover a lot of things, and as soon as I post this, I will be "dang..how could I forgot to ask this"

Thank you for reading this thread with my silly mess of questions, but I know everyone starts here?
Appreciate the advices in advance.

And finally, here are a cool shot about my hermann's, Ernő, the little conqueror of The World?️View attachment 322494View attachment 322495View attachment 322496View attachment 322497View attachment 322498
If you get really stuck for bedding, there is a hemp horse bedding which is more like bolser wood, so soft and breaks down easily if a tortoise eats it, which they don't tend to do with hemp...one of the main brands is called Aubiose. It would be sold in farm supply shops or agricultural and horse suppliers.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
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Joined
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If you get really stuck for bedding, there is a hemp horse bedding which is more like bolser wood, so soft and breaks down easily if a tortoise eats it, which they don't tend to do with hemp...one of the main brands is called Aubiose. It would be sold in farm supply shops or agricultural and horse suppliers.
This is not a good tortoise substrate. Any tort substrate needs to be kept damp, and this stuff will break down and mold if it gets wet.
 

LJL1982

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Messages
318
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This is not a good tortoise substrate. Any tort substrate needs to be kept damp, and this stuff will break down and mold if it gets wet.
That's why it's used for tortoises and horses, it's doesn't mold and has natural antibacterial properties?

The International Tortoise Association based in the UK will only use hemp for their tortoises because of this and do not like Orchid Bark due to the potential for white mold growth.

I personally am not a fan of it, as I think it can stay too dry as it absorbs damp a bit too well, but I have seen tortoises thrive on it and they have thousands using it.

In lieu of being able to obtain anything else, I certainly think it is preferable to a substrate which will not break down in a tortoise stomach if eaten, or one that is toxic.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
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That's why it's used for tortoises and horses, it's doesn't mold and has natural antibacterial properties?

The International Tortoise Association based in the UK will only use hemp for their tortoises because of this and do not like Orchid Bark due to the potential for white mold growth.

I personally am not a fan of it, as I think it can stay too dry as it absorbs damp a bit too well, but I have seen tortoises thrive on it and they have thousands using it.

In lieu of being able to obtain anything else, I certainly think it is preferable to a substrate which will not break down in a tortoise stomach if eaten, or one that is toxic.
Do you know what the number one killer of baby tortoises is? Dehydration. Dehydration due to people who don't understand what they are talking about and give out poor advice. One part of that poor advice is to put them on a dry substrate.

Almost all sources of info for tortoise care give out this same wrong advice. Vets, book authors, breeders, herpetologists, pet shops, almost everyone on YouTube and FB, etc... I used to do it too because that is what I was taught. That is what we are/were all taught. After two decades of following "their" advice and watching the death and disfigurement of uncountable tortoises, I, and several others, began researching, talking to people all over the world, and doing experiments to test out new theories. We wanted to know why "their" info failed, and what the right info was. With more than 10 years behind us, dozens of side by side experiments with clutch mates, observations and case studies done by reptile vets, countless conversations with tortoise keepers around the world, thousands of observations of results all around the entire world, we have learned a few things. One of those things is which substrates to use and why. Dry is not it.

If you go back and read some of the discussions on pyramiding that were happening here on this forum 10 years ago, you will see how this all came about. It was met with much resistance at first, and that is understandable, but after 1000s of people all over the globe tried it and saw the results, it became painfully obvious, even to those who had learned from sources like the ITA. Here on TFO we have been fighting the old wrong info for over a decade. We are one voice drowned out by a thousand others, but if you take the time and ask some questions, you'll get the right info too, and that will help your own tortoises, as well as the tortoises of those you advise.
 

Lyn W

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Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23,504
Location (City and/or State)
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That's why it's used for tortoises and horses, it's doesn't mold and has natural antibacterial properties?

The International Tortoise Association based in the UK will only use hemp for their tortoises because of this and do not like Orchid Bark due to the potential for white mold growth.

I personally am not a fan of it, as I think it can stay too dry as it absorbs damp a bit too well, but I have seen tortoises thrive on it and they have thousands using it.

In lieu of being able to obtain anything else, I certainly think it is preferable to a substrate which will not break down in a tortoise stomach if eaten, or one that is toxic.
I have visited the ITA in Sully on one of their open days do you go regularly?
I've often wondered why they call themselves 'International' any ideas?
 
Last edited:

LJL1982

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318
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UK
Do you know what the number one killer of baby tortoises is? Dehydration. Dehydration due to people who don't understand what they are talking about and give out poor advice. One part of that poor advice is to put them on a dry substrate.

Almost all sources of info for tortoise care give out this same wrong advice. Vets, book authors, breeders, herpetologists, pet shops, almost everyone on YouTube and FB, etc... I used to do it too because that is what I was taught. That is what we are/were all taught. After two decades of following "their" advice and watching the death and disfigurement of uncountable tortoises, I, and several others, began researching, talking to people all over the world, and doing experiments to test out new theories. We wanted to know why "their" info failed, and what the right info was. With more than 10 years behind us, dozens of side by side experiments with clutch mates, observations and case studies done by reptile vets, countless conversations with tortoise keepers around the world, thousands of observations of results all around the entire world, we have learned a few things. One of those things is which substrates to use and why. Dry is not it.

If you go back and read some of the discussions on pyramiding that were happening here on this forum 10 years ago, you will see how this all came about. It was met with much resistance at first, and that is understandable, but after 1000s of people all over the globe tried it and saw the results, it became painfully obvious, even to those who had learned from sources like the ITA. Here on TFO we have been fighting the old wrong info for over a decade. We are one voice drowned out by a thousand others, but if you take the time and ask some questions, you'll get the right info too, and that will help your own tortoises, as well as the tortoises of those you advise.
It's not a case of me needing to find the right information particularly, I think it is the influence of others. My tortoise for years was on damper substrate and was very happy but I took him over to the ITA and they literally emptied his travel box of substrate and said in no uncertain term said he should be on hemp. It actually frightened me that I was then questioning what is years of research and learning that I knew about tortoise ownership and working with the Animal and Plant Health Agency to ensure tortoises were correctly looked after.

I would still stand by looking at hemp bedding as an option if no other safe options are available in a location from and impaction and ingestion risk perspective.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
It's not a case of me needing to find the right information particularly, I think it is the influence of others. My tortoise for years was on damper substrate and was very happy but I took him over to the ITA and they literally emptied his travel box of substrate and said in no uncertain term said he should be on hemp. It actually frightened me that I was then questioning what is years of research and learning that I knew about tortoise ownership and working with the Animal and Plant Health Agency to ensure tortoises were correctly looked after.

I would still stand by looking at hemp bedding as an option if no other safe options are available in a location from and impaction and ingestion risk perspective.
They are wrong. We have thousands of examples to prove them wrong right here on the forum. I've raised hundreds of examples myself. This is what I'm trying to tell you and anyone reading. Most of the info out in the world for tortoise care is wrong, and often detrimental.

Get 12 hatchings that were incubated the same and hatched at the same time, and all started the right way. Then raise 6 on your hemp feeding in a dry enclosure, and 6 on damp orchid bark in an identical enclosure, or use a single enclosure that is divided in half. Month by month you will see the difference. After 6 months the contrast will be stark, and you will feel bad for the ones raised on the dry substrate.

How do I know this? Because I've been doing these kinds of experiments, changing one variable at a time since 2008. I've done it with 7 different species and two locale specific variants of the same species. (Sudan Sulcatas, and SA leopards) I spent 20 years raising torts of various species on dry substrate because I was told the same wrong info you were told:
1. If they incidentally ingest it, it will pass through.
2. Humidity will give them a respiratory infection, so torts need a dry enclosure.
3. They are desert animals and get most of their water from their food.

Yet in practice the best results are obtained from damp coco coir or fine grade orchid bark. Time and time again. Ask the people at the ITA how many of these kind of side by side experiments with clutch mate tortoises of different species they have done over how many years. Its like when people ask how long tortoises live. No one knows the answer to this question. No one. Any answer given was either made up, or repeated from someone else who made it up. Same with this dry substrate info. Its been repeated and learned by new people for decades. Its wrong. It has always been wrong, but people just don't know better, and argue when you try to tell them.

Keep asking questions. I'm happy to explain how I came to these conclusions.
 

LJL1982

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Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
UK
They are wrong. We have thousands of examples to prove them wrong right here on the forum. I've raised hundreds of examples myself. This is what I'm trying to tell you and anyone reading. Most of the info out in the world for tortoise care is wrong, and often detrimental.

Get 12 hatchings that were incubated the same and hatched at the same time, and all started the right way. Then raise 6 on your hemp feeding in a dry enclosure, and 6 on damp orchid bark in an identical enclosure, or use a single enclosure that is divided in half. Month by month you will see the difference. After 6 months the contrast will be stark, and you will feel bad for the ones raised on the dry substrate.

How do I know this? Because I've been doing these kinds of experiments, changing one variable at a time since 2008. I've done it with 7 different species and two locale specific variants of the same species. (Sudan Sulcatas, and SA leopards) I spent 20 years raising torts of various species on dry substrate because I was told the same wrong info you were told:
1. If they incidentally ingest it, it will pass through.
2. Humidity will give them a respiratory infection, so torts need a dry enclosure.
3. They are desert animals and get most of their water from their food.

Yet in practice the best results are obtained from damp coco coir or fine grade orchid bark. Time and time again. Ask the people at the ITA how many of these kind of side by side experiments with clutch mate tortoises of different species they have done over how many years. Its like when people ask how long tortoises live. No one knows the answer to this question. No one. Any answer given was either made up, or repeated from someone else who made it up. Same with this dry substrate info. Its been repeated and learned by new people for decades. Its wrong. It has always been wrong, but people just don't know better, and argue when you try to tell them.

Keep asking questions. I'm happy to explain how I came to these conclusions.
I totally disagree with most of their methodology there on various things; they told me my tortoise was without a doubt female when I've seen his willy and they said I was wrong. I argued my tortoise was an Ibera and that was why he was dark, because he was northern and they said Iberas are light and I had put something on his shell which ahd made it dark.

They also feed cabbage based foods to tortoises because people donate them.
 

LJL1982

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Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
UK
They are wrong. We have thousands of examples to prove them wrong right here on the forum. I've raised hundreds of examples myself. This is what I'm trying to tell you and anyone reading. Most of the info out in the world for tortoise care is wrong, and often detrimental.

Get 12 hatchings that were incubated the same and hatched at the same time, and all started the right way. Then raise 6 on your hemp feeding in a dry enclosure, and 6 on damp orchid bark in an identical enclosure, or use a single enclosure that is divided in half. Month by month you will see the difference. After 6 months the contrast will be stark, and you will feel bad for the ones raised on the dry substrate.

How do I know this? Because I've been doing these kinds of experiments, changing one variable at a time since 2008. I've done it with 7 different species and two locale specific variants of the same species. (Sudan Sulcatas, and SA leopards) I spent 20 years raising torts of various species on dry substrate because I was told the same wrong info you were told:
1. If they incidentally ingest it, it will pass through.
2. Humidity will give them a respiratory infection, so torts need a dry enclosure.
3. They are desert animals and get most of their water from their food.

Yet in practice the best results are obtained from damp coco coir or fine grade orchid bark. Time and time again. Ask the people at the ITA how many of these kind of side by side experiments with clutch mate tortoises of different species they have done over how many years. Its like when people ask how long tortoises live. No one knows the answer to this question. No one. Any answer given was either made up, or repeated from someone else who made it up. Same with this dry substrate info. Its been repeated and learned by new people for decades. Its wrong. It has always been wrong, but people just don't know better, and argue when you try to tell them.

Keep asking questions. I'm happy to explain how I came to these conclusions.
Sorry two responses, just for clarity/ advice then, in the absence of bark or coir being available in a location, possibly as in the example of the OP, what is the suggested "least harm" bedding as a possible alternative in your opinion?
 

Yvonne G

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Can you order from amazon? They have a product called Reptibark. That 's what I use.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
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Location (City and/or State)
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Sorry two responses, just for clarity/ advice then, in the absence of bark or coir being available in a location, possibly as in the example of the OP, what is the suggested "least harm" bedding as a possible alternative in your opinion?
There must be some orchid growers in Hungary. Try to find out where they buy their orchid growing medium. This makes a good reptile bedding.
 

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