Cherryhead & Black cherryhead?

verda

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What's the difference in a Cherryhead & Black Cherryhead? I see ppl advertising Black Cherryheads for sale, and was wondering is there anything special about them or different. Thanks!
 

naturalman91

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to my knowledge they're just blacker then normal red's but i'm sure n2tort's know's the actual gene that causes it or lack of gene which ever
 

naturalman91

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David is correct on this .....the term is "Melanistic" – Abnormally dark, due to increased melanin.;)



Hypomelanistic


Normal Type


what's the darkest you've ever seen? i can't remember who owns it or who produced it but someone on the forum had a REALLY dark one pretty much all black
 

N2TORTS

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I believe Carl and Terry have hatched out some really dark ones'......
Here is my adult female black ....


Some dark babies


as opposed to this ....

 

verda

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Freddie1.jpg Freddie2.jpg
Here is my baby Freddy .... so is this one consider a dark Cherry? Cherryhead seems more laid back and relax than my leos. Very sweet tort so far. Thanks for replying everyone :)
 

allegraf

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I'm not sure if the marketed "black cherry" torts are necessarily melanistic or just torts with a very small amount of color. The color that is present in some of these so called black cherries is red, there is just little to no color. Not necessarily a melanistic darker/lack of pigment type of color. Turtle terry (Nerd) is the one that first started marketing the black cherries. Some of his were almost totally black and what color they had was very dark, some just didn't have much color, but what color they had was red. If the little bit of color is red, I wouldn't consider it melanistic, just a cherry with very few colored scutes. The term melanistic seems to be subjective based on the person's perspective rather than a standard. The hypos are much easier to discern.
 
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N2TORTS

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Little is known about the molecular basis of color evolution in this group. Reptile coloration has long been studied as an example of adaptive evolution (Cott 1940; Norris and Lowe 1964). Geographic variation in dorsal color is common in reptiles, and selective pressures can often be inferred. In some cases, color variation coincides with substrates of different color, while in other cases, color variation seems to be associated with different thermal environments. Overall body coloration is under strong natural selection in squamates because diurnal reptiles experience intense selection for substrate matching to diminish vulnerability to visual predators (Norris 1965; Kettlewell 1973). Color variation is also known to influence temperature regulation in a variety of ectotherms (Majerus 1998; Bittner et al. 2002). Advances in understanding the genetic basis of pigmentation in other vertebrate taxa provide an opportunity to investigate the genetic basis of color variation in reptiles. The wealth of information on the genetics of pigmentation and the clear fitness consequences of many pigmentation phenotypes provide an opportunity to study the molecular basis of an ecologically important trait. The melanocortin-1 receptor (Mc1r) is responsible for intraspecific color variation in mammals and birds. Here, we study the molecular evolution of Mc1r and investigate its role in adaptive intraspecific color differences in reptiles. We sequenced the complete Mc1r locus in seven phylogenetically diverse squamate species with melanic or blanched forms associated with different colored substrates or thermal environments. We found that patterns of amino acid substitution across different regions of the receptor are similar to the patterns seen in mammals, suggesting comparable levels of constraint and probably a conserved function for Mc1r in mammals and reptiles. We also found high levels of silent-site heterozygosity in all species, consistent with a high mutation rate or large long-term effective population size. Mc1r polymorphisms were strongly associated with color differences in Holbrookia maculata and Aspidoscelis inornata. InA. inornata, several observations suggest that Mc1r mutations may contribute to differences in color: (1) a strong association is observed between one Mc1r amino acid substitution and dorsal color; (2) no significant population structure was detected among individuals from these populations at the mitochondrial ND4 gene; (3) the distribution of allele frequencies at Mc1r deviates from neutral expectations; and (4) patterns of linkage disequilibrium at Mc1r are consistent with recent selection. This study provides comparative data on a nuclear gene in reptiles and highlights the utility of a candidate-gene approach for understanding the evolution of genes involved in vertebrate adaptation.All, however, are made from special proteins. The primary protein used by vertebrates is keratin. It occurs as two forms: alpha (more pliable) and beta (more stiff) keratin. The way in which the keratin is constructed at the molecular level is what determines the structural differences among the various excrescences. Reptiles have evolved a unique layer in the skin from their aquatic ancestors. In order for reptiles to live free from water a waxy layer, the stratum corneum, evolved to keep the animal from drying out on land. These waxy layers lie between the layers that produce the keratin for the scales. The scales are overlapping layers of skin with an inner and outer coating.Ratios of polymorphism (such as “purpleman” within species to divergence between species were also com- pared with expectations under a neutral model using the HKA test (Hudson et al. 1987). In this test, Mc1r sequences were compared to sequences from the mitochondrial ND4 gene.We first amplified and sequenced Mc1r from two individual (four alleles) of each color morph in each species to look for associations between genotype and color phenotype. In the four species in which no association was seen among these eight alleles, we did not sequence additional alleles. In the three species in which an association was seen (S. un- dulatus, H. maculata, and A. inornata), we sequenced Mc1r from a minimum of 10 additional individuals of each color morph (Table 1). Associations between single nucleotide polymorphisms and color were tested in 2 3 2 contingency tables using Fisher’s exact tests.
With the various males and females within my groups , selective breeding and isolations – very definitive of what parents produced what baby. So the term “ just less red scales “ ….can be reproduced because of the genetic makeup of the parents. It does not happen at random.
 

N2TORTS

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Another example of gene makeups of " names" and differences is growing cannabis. There are 3 types - Indica , Sativa and Hybrids. All have slight differences and marketed under several different names . ....according to visual aspects, potency and maturity rates until harvest time. Plus the human nature for an intriguing name to set one apart from the other. Although technically "named" marijuana for all kinds.....sounds good for Fox news and the retarded politicians who are oblivious of the values about the benefits of the NATURAL drug.
 

verda

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That was really interesting to read...love it! Learned so much from everyone here...Thanks!
 

allegraf

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I'm not sure if it is only selective breeding. There are usually plenty of variations within my clutches, some with little color and some with an abundance. You can selectively breed for the reduced color and for the phenom color. Best example in my herd is Rambutan. Spectacular color and she produces some real colorful hatchlings. Within the same clutch, she has produced some not so brilliantly colored hatchlings.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/update-siblings-why-genetics-are-fun.90356/
 

tortadise

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Did somebody say blacky? These aren't cherry heads. But the one specifically on the very top is a pretty black Redfoot, I get nothing but these from the parents too. Pretty cool I think. The colorful ones are nice but always fun to see a variety. Allegra and Jeff I'm sure can show more representations within the cherry head clad.


image.jpg
 

N2TORTS

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I'm not sure if it is only selective breeding. There are usually plenty of variations within my clutches, some with little color and some with an abundance. You can selectively breed for the reduced color and for the phenom color. Best example in my herd is Rambutan. Spectacular color and she produces some real colorful hatchlings. Within the same clutch, she has produced some not so brilliantly colored hatchlings.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/update-siblings-why-genetics-are-fun.90356/
Your absolutely right .....as they are not " clones" from the parent, but two gene sources. Unlike growing ....a clone from a mother plant - it will have the same color , size, structure , prone to the same dieses as the mother plant. And actually one of the fun things about selective breeding tortoises and or just on a whim ....ya never know what your going to get . Yes your Rambutan produces some amazing babies to say the least:)
 

naturalman91

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Did somebody say blacky? These aren't cherry heads. But the one specifically on the very top is a pretty black Redfoot, I get nothing but these from the parents too. Pretty cool I think. The colorful ones are nice but always fun to see a variety. Allegra and Jeff I'm sure can show more representations within the cherry head clad.


View attachment 101682

ohhh a black normal redfoot? i'm in love lol
 

N2TORTS

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3- different gene line of coloring - Not related
[/URL

My Dark Female Rudy –
GS9_zpsd33c5f66.jpg


[URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/summer2013/GS9_zpsd33c5f66.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/summer2013/CHsum22_zpsb1719241.jpg.html'] [/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
[URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/Hatchlings%202012/CHHATCH2012a.jpg.html'][URL='http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/summer2013/GS9_zpsd33c5f66.jpg.html']
Unlike most coloring seen on Adult Cherry Head Plastrons ....
[URL=http://s755.photobucket.com/user/N2TORTS/media/sellcherrys/ADMCHMALE1b_zps5039fa42.jpg.html]

Very Unusual Cherry Head Male with almost solid black plastron ……


Or the exact opposite with lots of marbling
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