Bubbles from nose

Trower

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Hi,

I have just purchased my first tortoise two days ago.

I built the table from scratch, 4ft x 2ft. On the left hand side is roughly a 1ft x 2ft inclosed home for the tortoise and the rest of the space is an open area for the tortoise to roam around.

I've filled it with Tortoise life substrate relatively deep incase it wants to bury itself at all at night when temps drop. Has a shallow enough water bowl, a slate tile with the correct food on, calcium powder and it seems to be liking the food and eating correctly.

I have a long strip bulb (Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit) which is 11.5-12 inches above the shell of the tortoise and the same with the heat bulb.

The cool end is reading around 20 degrees celsius virtually all day and night and under the heat is roughly 34 degrees celcius in the day (12 hours)

In the morning the shell feels slightly cold but that's obviously external so I assume internally it's okay.

The last two nights it's gone to sleep around 7pm roughly and when I'm up in the mornings around 8am it's still asleep so I carefully put the tortoise in the open part of the table and turn the lights back on.

This is where I get a bit concerned because it starts to rub its eyes a couple of times (I guess that maybe due to me waking it up and putting it under the light but I want to make sure it gets warmed up and doesn't stay asleep or should I just leave it?)

Also bubbles come out of it's nose a few times, sounds like it's sneezing etc)

Seems a bit a slow in the mornings but then once warmed up or something it starts to move around and yesterday was quite active and ate a lot of food.

I'll add some pictures shortly. I hope I've given enough information and thank you for taking your time to read, any help is much appreciated and let me know if you need anymore information.15461620051661952453427.jpg 15461620725711590283553.jpg15461620051661952453427.jpg 15461620725711590283553.jpg
 

Boettgeri

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Hello,

Bubbles from nose sounds like rhinitis to me but if the tortoise eats it is a good sign. Have the tortoise seen a vet ?

What kind of tortoise is it ?
 

JoesMum

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Hello and welcome to TFO! I live over the county border in Kent and we had a Greek for 47 years. :)

It looks like you have a young Hermann's.

I am afraid you have received poor guidance on the care of this tortoise and, the runny nose probably isn't good news. It is likely to be a respiratory infection. Given you have only had it for two days I would return it for a refund. This tortoise has not got sick due to your care.

If you decide to keep it then you will need to find a vet experienced with tortoises and your baby will need a course of antibiotics. I can recommend a vet in Maidstone if you don't have one nearer. General cat and dog vets are no good - you do need a specialist.

Babies like this need to be raised in a warm humid environment 24/7.

I am going to write my advice in list format, sorry if it seems a bit lengthy.

1. An open table such as you have is not suitable for a baby. You need a cover over the enclosure to hold in the warmth and humidity needed for a baby to be healthy. This can be in a vivarium with a very large floor area or some people use a plant tent like this

2. The substrate must be an earthy type that will hold moisture. Yours contains calcium pieces which actively encourages the tortoise to eat it and can lead to substrate blocking the gut; we fail to understand why this is sold for tortoises as it is not suitable at all. Coco coiror fine grade orchid barkare both great and cheapest when bought from Amazon or a DIY or garden store. Don't buy anything with additives such as calcium pieces (why would you encourage a tortoise to eat the substrate?), sand, fertilisers or vermiculite.

The substrate should be 3-4"/ 7-10cam deep. Mix the the substrate with water and stir with your hands until all of it is evenly damp right to the bottom and into the corners.

3. Getting the temperatures right is essential. Your baby needs temperature no lower than 26C day and night. This is especially important for a sick tortoise. Without external heat, your tortoise cannot digest food, eat or be active. The covered enclosure helps to keep the heat in, but you will also need a Ceramic Heat Emitter and a thermosat running 24/7 to maintain this. Use a ceramic lamp holder for the CHE as the heater will melt a plastic one.

4. Your tortoise must be able to bask at 35-37C directly under the basking lamp. Use a Temperature Gun Thermometer to measure accurately and adjust the temperature under the lamp by raising or lowering it. The basking lamp must be on for 14 hours a day with complete darkness at night; use a timer to make life easy for yourself.

5. Hopefully your basking lamp is actually a Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) which also emits UVB light. Be aware that the UVB output of these bulbs fails long before the bulb blows. You can test it with a UV meter or replace the bulb every 9 months without fail.

6. If your basking bulb isn't an MVB then you need a separate UVB lamp. Don't get a compact screw thread bulb that looks like a low energy light bulb as these cause eye problems in tortoises. Use a long fluorescent tube UVB lamp. The life span of these bulbs is years rather than the months of an MVB so they're good value. The UVB also needs to be on for 14 hours a day.


7. The reptile bowl you are using isn't suitable for tortoises. The sides are too steep and are a tipping hazard and they are hard for torts to use. A piece of flat rock or slate, like you have, makes a great food plate which helps to keep the torts beak in shape by abrasion as it eats. A terracotta plant saucer sunk into the substrate is a great water dish.

8. Diet is a variety of weedy and leafy greens. Your tort cannot digest sugars properly, they cause digestive and kidney problems, so sweet foods like fruit, tomato, red pepper and carrot should only be fed very sparingly and very occasionally if at all.

Write a list of the greens that grow around you and those that you can buy and look them up on The Tortoise Table Plant Database for suitability to feed. It's a fabulous online search facility that tells you why something is suitable or not
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Few of us manage in the winter months when weeds are scarce without supplementing with a pelleted tortoise food softened in tap water. I used Komodo.

Your tortoise will also benefit from a calcium supplement. A cuttlebone can be left in the enclosure for your tort to chomp on when it wants which also helps with beak maintenance. You will find them in the bird aisle of the pet store. You could also use calcium powder; a tiny pinch sprinkled on food three days a week is sufficient as you can overdo it - sprinkle it sparsley as your tort will refuse to eat if it detects it!


9. Please read and reread these TFO care guides. They are written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and sadly from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Baby Testudo Tortoise Care (written about Russians but applies to yours too)
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/b...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
 
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Trower

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Thank you both for your input. The tortoise I was told is a spur-thighed tortoise.

What's classed as a baby? I assume due to the lifespan they aren't far off humans but apparently my one is about 2-3 years old, would that still need to be raised in an enclosed vivarium? Sounds like I need to change virtually everything which is a bit of a nightmare considering the work and money I've put into this.

Other than the bubbles in the morning the tortoise seems perfectly fine.

I will contact the seller and see what I can do but my son has taken to this tortoise i.e naming it etc and would be a shame to return it.
 

Trower

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I have also just read that stress can be a cause of this?

This would completely make sense due to the tortoise just being moved homes and also the fact that it's okay in the day once motivated.

Should I just make sure the table is nice and warm for it tonight and then let it do its own thing in the morning rather that physically moving it out into the light myself?

What I'm getting at, is there any other options or possibilities before I go jumping the gun?
 

JoesMum

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A spur-thighed tortoise is a Greek :) Testudo graeca.

It sounds like the bubbles might be a one off. This happens occasionally after drinking or a soak. The time to get concerned is if they are continuous. Your tortoise is too small for a table as yet and needs the warmth and humidity of a closed chamber. Treat as a baby until it has grown.

Lack of activity is common after a move as both the humans and the new enclosure are scary. I doubt stress has caused the bubbles. In the longer term stress can lead to decline which can lead to a respiratory infection, but you have only has your tortoise for 2 days. Your son needs to understand that the tortoise is happiest with all 4 feet on the ground in a familiar environment. They aren't social creatures and don't respond well to cuddles and disturbance. In any case, out of the enclosure the tortoise is away from the heat, UVB and humidity it needs to be healthy.

The principal cause of lack of activity is the temperatures being wrong. It is important to get them right. Being too cold at night means they take too long to warm up next day. And not having the right basking temperatures means the tortoise cannot digest food, be active or eat.

I always recommend establishing a routine with a new tortoise so it learns what to expect and when.

- Have the lights on a timer for 14 hours. The timer makes life easier for you and ensures your tortoise gets enough basking heat and UVB.

- First thing in the morning every day, soak your tort in warm water for at least 20 minutes. Daily soaks are essential for youngsters. A large flat bottomed bowl like a washing up bowl is ideal. The water should be deep enough to just come over the join between the shell and the plastron (undershell)

- While the tortoise soaks, tidy the enclosure and place food.

- Replace the tortoise and leave it entirely alone to be brave and explore. With time your tort will decide you are the bringer of yummy food and safe, but some are slower to catch on than others.
 

Ben02

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hello and welcome, may I ask where you acquired your tortoise, was it from a breeder or a pet shop??. When I got my Tortoises one did have a bubbly nose for a little while she still ate every thing in sight and moved around Abit Just give him time to settle. As Joesmum said it will be best to tell your son to resist the urge to pick him up however hard that may be. At pets at home they do sell coco coir for 3 quid a block which is really good for digging.
 

JoesMum

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hello and welcome, may I ask where you acquired your tortoise, was it from a breeder or a pet shop??. When I got my Tortoises one did have a bubbly nose for a little while she still ate every thing in sight and moved around Abit Just give him time to settle. As Joesmum said it will be best to tell your son to resist the urge to pick him up however hard that may be. At pets at home they do sell coco coir for 3 quid a block which is really good for digging.
You can buy coco coir blocks from B&Q, Homebase and Amazon for much less :) It is clearly very expensive to print a picture of an animal on the packet. [emoji849]
 

JoesMum

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hello and welcome, may I ask where you acquired your tortoise, was it from a breeder or a pet shop??. When I got my Tortoises one did have a bubbly nose for a little while she still ate every thing in sight and moved around Abit Just give him time to settle. As Joesmum said it will be best to tell your son to resist the urge to pick him up however hard that may be. At pets at home they do sell coco coir for 3 quid a block which is really good for digging.
You can buy coco coir blocks from B&Q, Homebase and Amazon for much less :) It is clearly very expensive to print a picture of an animal on the packet. [emoji849]
 

Trower

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Joesmum: sorry I wasn't questioning your knowledge just answering Boettgeri's question in regards to which tortoise we have. I'm very grateful for your help.

I have just gone out and got some different bedding that isn't so fine so it won't be able to inhale that until I get some of the suggested bedding from amazon.

I also just got a spray bottle, a much lower water dish and a cuttlebone.

Raised the temp slightly on the Dimming thermostat and I think I'm going to build a box that I can simply put over the top of the table so it's enclosed.

I have put a small log/cave nest the basking area and sprayed some water in there so it's nice and cosy as well as a little humid/moist.

The tortoise has been darting round, eating food etc and seems a lot more lively than it already was.

I also just got a red heat lamp for at night so it doesn't get to cold.

Sorry if I came across wrong on any of the above messages but my son hasn't been handling the tortoise at all. I'm letting the tortoise do it's thing and settle in, what I meant was he's named the tortoise and it wouldn't be ideal taking it back to the reptile shop we purchased it from.

From what you have said I have a feeling that the tortoise is simply to to cold at night so I'm going to try and adapt and fix that over the next couple of nights.

As it's our first tortoise or even reptile it's a game of trial and error which should hopefully be sorted in the next couple of days.

Again, thanks for all of your help and I'll apply all the suggestions above.
 

JoesMum

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No need to apologise we all started somewhere.

Please get rid of the red lamp though. Your tortoise needs complete darkness at night. Unfortunately tortoises are not very bright and associate red coloured things with being edible. We see far too many that get gut blockages from eating substrate coloured by these red lamps :(

Your tortoise needs a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) which you use with a thermostat set to 26C. This runs 24/7 and the thermostat ensures it only cuts in when needed. A CHE emits heat without light, but gets very hot so use a ceramic lamp holder not a plastic one for it.
 

Trower

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Ahhhh that's what that strange looking bulb I saw in the shop was. Brilliant, I'll grab one of those. Luckily I kept the receipt so I can exchange the red bulb for a CHE
 

Yvonne G

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Hello,

Bubbles from nose sounds like rhinitis to me but if the tortoise eats it is a good sign. Have the tortoise seen a vet ?

What kind of tortoise is it ?
It could also mean stress from the move to a new home.
 

JoesMum

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Ahhhh that's what that strange looking bulb I saw in the shop was. Brilliant, I'll grab one of those. Luckily I kept the receipt so I can exchange the red bulb for a CHE
Get a thermostat too. You will cook your tortoise without one!
 

Trower

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The heat/basking lamp is already on a thermostat. Can I not just switch bulbs at night and then again in the morning?
 

JoesMum

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The heat/basking lamp is already on a thermostat. Can I not just switch bulbs at night and then again in the morning?
The basking lamp should be on constantly through the day. You control temperature under it by its height above the enclosure. No thermostat turning it off randomly.

Use the thermostat on the CHE alone.
 

Trower

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The basking lamp should be on constantly through the day. You control temperature under it by its height above the enclosure. No thermostat turning it off randomly.

Use the thermostat on the CHE alone.
It's a Dimming thermostat so it's not switching on and off constantly it's keeping a consistent temperature throughout the day so I was thinking after the 14 hours of that being on I could switch the bulb to the ceramic heater which I've now got. Sorry to keep firing back, I just want to make sure things are correct.
 

JoesMum

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It's a Dimming thermostat so it's not switching on and off constantly it's keeping a consistent temperature throughout the day so I was thinking after the 14 hours of that being on I could switch the bulb to the ceramic heater which I've now got. Sorry to keep firing back, I just want to make sure things are correct.
The point is that you shouldn't be using the thermostat to dim the basking bulb. It must be 35-37C/95-100F directly underneath that all the time it is on. You control that by raising or lowering the bulb and, once at the correct height, the temperature will not change. The temperature under that bulb is critical. Unless your tortoise can raise its body to that temperature it cannot be active.
 

Trower

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Right okay. I'll correct that then and get another fixing for the ceramic bulb and have the two of them fixed onto that wooden arm
 
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