18 months herman, weight and length advice needed!

[alfiethetortoise]

Ok, So Alfie (herman) has been with us now for nearly two weeks. Today i weighed and measured him and he is:

8.5 cm in length
82g in weight

I looked at the graph and it doesn't go that low! So was wondering if anyone thinks this is about right?!

Alfie eats dandilions and grass daily, i feed him morning and night. He normally eats it all. He also gets geraniums, rose petals, romaine every other day. Today he has eaten 4 small dandilion leaves, and half a geranium leaf. I spinkle D3 on his food once a week, do i need to do this more? He has cuttlefish and fresh water in his table at all times.

So much to think about all the time! Thanks

 

[egyptiandan]

He's a bit light for his size. He should be about 130g.

Danny

 

[tortoisenerd]

Are you sure you measured correctly? Look here: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/measuring.htm Does he feel like a rock of the same size, or lighter? Do you have photos?

Dandelions, although a great food, are not ideal for the majority of the diet as they are high in oxalic acid. I would try to vary the diet more so you have some foods that are higher in oxalic acid, and some lower. Are there any more types of weeds or greens for you to feed him? Does he like the grass? Is it chemical/pesticide/fertilizer free? If he has UVB, it's my opinion he doesn't need D3 at all, and just pure calcium daily. I think you should do the research yourself and see what you think. Because it's fat soluble not water soluble, I think there is more risk than reward as torts synthesize it themselves from UVB. It's tough to know how much to give without overdoing it. Others however will disagree with me which is why I say to make up your own mind. Do you use a calcium supplement? I think a growing tort needs some daily in addition to an available cuttlebone. How much food is he eating in relation to his size (such as a pile his size, half his size, etc)? If you are buying romaine, I recommend instead substituting organic spring mix. Much more variety for the money, and includes romaine in many cases. Best wishes.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I have just re-measured alfie using the technique from the tortoise trust.

He is still 8.5 cm and coming up at 78g on the digital scales.

He doesn't really like the grass (which yes is chemical free), but is currently munching on some spring mix. He eats a pile about half his size in the morning and then another pile about 1/3 of his size ar around 4pm. Its a calcium supplemt with d3, which he gets twice a week. Does he need it daily? He eats all his food, should i offer more?

I took him to the vet when we got him, who said that his shell was in good condition and he seemed in good health...

Attatched photo to this post when we first got him, have more, but have not made them smaller enough to fit on here yet...

 

[tortoisenerd]

I would recommend only a pure calcium supplement (you can even get it at the human supplement store) if he gets regular UVB. If not, then yes you need the kind the D3. Growing torts should get a sprinkle of calcium daily plus a cuttlebone. Since Danny says he is underweight, then yes you should offer more food (add a little more to the piles you already give, not another offering time each day).

If you use this thread to upload the photo to another site first, no limit on photo size as the website re sizes them I think: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-1408.html

If he doesn't like and doesn't ear the grass (normal for his breed), then make sure he gets enough other variety with weeds, greens, lettuces, veggie leaves (except the nightshade family), flowers, etc.

 

[Ozric]

Hi, if you are measuring correctly then this tortoise is really quite underweight for his length. You need the Jackson Ration for juveniles. Here it is: http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-2836.html?highlight=jackson

Essentially, Hermanns do not eat grass. Small ones may nibble it but only till they realise its no use to them.

If this tortoise seems hungry then yes I would feed it more, because it is underweight. Gaining weight will take time and there is no short-cut. I don't know if you are considering hibernating this tortoise but my suggestion would be not to do so, but keep the animal awake and eating all winter.

If possible feed the tortoise twice a day and check its weight every week and note it down to make sure it is going up gradually. It is also important to make sure the tortoise is hydrated and has access to water. Low weight might mean dehydration.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Thanks. Alfie has access to fresh clean water all of the time. I bathe him every other day. I have been giving him extra food, but find he isn't really eating it. He doesn't really eat the grass but i keep offering it anyway. Today he has had lettuce, a bit of squash, some dandilions and a bit of cucumber.

I wasen't planning on hibernating him anyway. Would increacing the temperature in his enclosure make a difference? At the moment its 75-80 in the day dropping to 65 at night. The weather is getting colder here already.

Perhaps i should take him to a different vet. He has been a bit sleepy over the past couple of days. His eyes seem clear, and otherwise he is eating, his substrate is moist and he doesn't seem to have a cold...

 

[Ozric]

." Would increacing the temperature in his enclosure make a difference? At the moment its 75-80 in the day dropping to 65 at night. The weather is getting colder here already."


Hi again, yes I think your temps are too low especially the daytime one. I think you need a hotspot of about 90F or 32C. The tortoise must be able to move away to a cooler area which is more like 70F or 20C. At night I personally think that lower temps are alright but some keepers insist on about 18C or 65F. As your tort is maybe not eating as much as you would like then I think that a night time temp of more like 70F would be a good idea if you can provide it.

More variety in the diet is good. Cucumber is basically water, not harmful but very low in nutrient. I don't know what foods you can get where you live. I am in the UK and grow lots of stuff in the garden for mine. If you are reliant on buying foods in, look out for Raddiccio, Lamb's Lettuce, Frisee, Romaine lettuce, watercress. Some plants are called different things in different places but here I can feed lots of weeds as well including Sow Thistle, Bugle, Clover, Plantain (Plantago species), Cats Ear and members of the campanula family.

Hope this helps a bit and let us know if you want more food ideas as there is bound to be someone on here that lives in the same region as you and will know about the plants there that are OK.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Ozric- sorry to clarify the hotspot is about 90f but the temperaure of the enclosure is more like 80 with a hide that he can go in which is between 70-75. I have been keeping his heat lamp on for longer and having it on earlier in the morning which seems to have made a difference. He isn't sleepy anymore and is more active and eating more food.

Also, i wasen't measuring him correctly, i was measuring his head! So his actual measurements now are 80mm and 84g.

 

[Ozric]

Hi, for an 80mm small tortoise the Jackson Ratio suggests a weight of over 100grammes so he might still be on the light side.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Yes, i have realised this already... but on the positive side at least he isn't as underweight...

I do not want to feed and feed him too much as i don't want pyramiding, so going for slow and steady growth. Hopefully after a winter of feeding he will be on a more 'normal' weight/height centile.

I am guessing that perhaps some torts are just small? My daughter is on completely different centiles for weight and height (she is tall and thin) and she literally eats me out of house and home and she is only 18months old

 

[Ozric]

Hi, yes they do vary a lot and some are always going to be smaller than others. The ratio is just a rough guide.

You might find that your tortoise doesn't gain a huge amount over the winter. At least that's what I've found.

If the tortoise was hungry I probably would feed more. I found keeping a regular check on the weight and noting it down can be really useful. Then I can see if offering more food is leading to excessive fast growth, which hasn't hapenned with the one I have which is always on the light side.