1 or 2 brown/black? and other newbie questions...

[Alyssa412]

hi. I'm new to the forum. I've kept several types of snakes in the past, but it's been a while since I've had any reptiles. a co-worker of mine has 4 brown/black tortoises (i'll explain in a second) and I'm wondering if I should take one or two. I have 50 pound dog and a dependable, but low income. i know keeping the tortoise(s) outdoors (I live in south florida) will keep expenses down, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew.

-I say "brown/black" because they are accidental tortoises. he had a female and a friend had a male and one was a brown and the other was a black and these are the offspring.
-he has had them since they were born, which he believes was around 2000. they've been kept together the whole time.
-he is a biologist and experienced tortoise keeper, so I know they are in good health. he's looking to downsize, so I am not being charged for the tortoises.
-there are two males and two females. he is attached to one of the females, so I am welcome to my choice of the remaining female and the two males.
-because they are siblings and because they are a mix of the two species, i would not allow any eggs that were laid to develop. so there is no chance of income from breeding.
-I have a very large fenced in backyard.

do I take one or two tortoises, and which ones? my biggest concern is finances. how much more will I be spending on food for one 15 year old vs two 15 year olds? do they prefer to be kept in pairs? if i take two, I'm inclined to take both males, that way I don't have to worry about eggs, period. but, it's important to him that they never be allowed to fully reproduce, and I feel that I could honestly promise him I wouldn't allow it to happen, and he would appreciate that peace of mind. would the dynamics be better if they were male and female, or since they've been together forever does it not matter?

ALSO, MORE QUESTIONS!!!
-what do you recommend for approximate dimensions for a hide box? I'd like to build one ASAP.
-he said something about a pond liner from lowe's that he uses as a water bowl that was only like $12. I looked online and didn't really see it. any recommendations?
-I can't find anything that specifically recommends how much to feed them, exactly how often, and what the percentages (pellets vs fruits vs veggies) should be. are there any rules of thumb?
-is there anything else I should know?

thank you guys so much. sorry for the crazy amount of questions!

 

[tortadise]

Manouria can certainly put some food back. Every so often I will catch either my blacks or Browns eating the largest leafed weeds or grass shoot. But nothing like a typical grazing species. One versus 2 or 3 will definitely be an increase in food consumption. However you can do lots of free stuff like collect cactus in very remote areas for them to feed on, mulberry leaves, banana trees, alocasia, coloclasia, paw paw fruits, mangos and dandelions things of that sort that are wildly grown in Florida.

Every once in a while I'll see what they can handle food wise. The Browns consist of of a 3.1 here two are younger males but still ravage food. They have eaten 12 heads of ret tip in one sitting before. On a daily basis they get a couple heirloom zucchini squashes, a handful of mushrooms, 4 heads of red tip, a couple cactus fruits(only during this time of year are they ripe) and some occasional banana treats. Then at evening they get a couple more heads of red tip, or broad leaf greens. The black is a different story he's 54 pounds so will manage that amount of the Browns in half for one feeding. But they're in a large area in which they forage and get lots of excercise so seem to always want food. The small blacks I have are 2,3 and 4, years old they're garbage disposals too. Constantly wanting food.

They're heavy consumers for sure. But being integrades I'd doubt they would get the size of a pure black. So that helps. Being able to keep them outside year around is a huge plus for you. Winter times they will slow down a lot because they won't digest the food with temps under 65-70 degree, nor build up an active metabolism during those months either.

I say you do it. They're such an amazing genus of tortoise. Very intelligent and fun to keep. An ancient among tortoises for sure.

 

[Alyssa412]

Manouria can certainly put some food back. Every so often I will catch either my blacks or Browns eating the largest leafed weeds or grass shoot. But nothing like a typical grazing species. One versus 2 or 3 will definitely be an increase in food consumption. However you can do lots of free stuff like collect cactus in very remote areas for them to feed on, mulberry leaves, banana trees, alocasia, coloclasia, paw paw fruits, mangos and dandelions things of that sort that are wildly grown in Florida.

Every once in a while I'll see what they can handle food wise. The Browns consist of of a 3.1 here two are younger males but still ravage food. They have eaten 12 heads of ret tip in one sitting before. On a daily basis they get a couple heirloom zucchini squashes, a handful of mushrooms, 4 heads of red tip, a couple cactus fruits(only during this time of year are they ripe) and some occasional banana treats. Then at evening they get a couple more heads of red tip, or broad leaf greens. The black is a different story he's 54 pounds so will manage that amount of the Browns in half for one feeding. But they're in a large area in which they forage and get lots of excercise so seem to always want food. The small blacks I have are 2,3 and 4, years old they're garbage disposals too. Constantly wanting food.

They're heavy consumers for sure. But being integrades I'd doubt they would get the size of a pure black. So that helps. Being able to keep them outside year around is a huge plus for you. Winter times they will slow down a lot because they won't digest the food with temps under 65-70 degree, nor build up an active metabolism during those months either.

I say you do it. They're such an amazing genus of tortoise. Very intelligent and fun to keep. An ancient among tortoises for sure.

holy poop that is way more food than I imagined!!! But good to know they'll slow down for a few months. but still, this is definitely going to take some more budgeting than I realized.

 

[tortadise]

holy poop that is way more food than I imagined!!! But good to know they'll slow down for a few months. but still, this is definitely going to take some more budgeting than I realized.

That's on a huge feeding scale though. One or two you won't get anywhere near that amount.

 

[Alyssa412]

That's on a huge feeding scale though. One or two you won't get anywhere near that amount.

do you offer any pellet diet? what about supplements?

 

[Yvonne G]

I had 8 intergrades here in the same yard for about 10 years before I sold them. They were all male. They never fought.

Manouria tortoises eat a lot. It really helps your grocery bill if you can grow a lot of what they eat.

 

[Alyssa412]

I had 8 intergrades here in the same yard for about 10 years before I sold them. They were all male. They never fought.

Manouria tortoises eat a lot. It really helps your grocery bill if you can grow a lot of what they eat.

I've been told hibiscus grows really well in my area and it's fairly cheap to buy (plus I think they're super pretty) so I'm definitely going to give those a try. Any other suggestions of fairly inexpensive beginner plants?

Also, I CAN give them my fruit and veggie "leftovers" (apple cores, ends of zucchini, etc.), correct?

also, thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, they are garbage disposals. You can usually pick up some alocasia/colocasia bulbs fairly cheaply. They are a mainstay in their native land...hosta, banana tree, rose of sharon, squash/pumpkin plants, clover, dichondra - any edible broad-leaf plant or weed.

 

[harris]

Go for it! To have the chance to acquire two15 yr olds, whether they're intergrades or not, doesn't come around too often with these guys.

 

[Alyssa412]

Go for it! To have the chance to acquire two15 yr olds, whether they're intergrades or not, doesn't come around too often with these guys.

I'm going for two!

 

[Alyssa412]

So my co-worker is bringing the three tortoises he's willing to part with over on Saturday so I can take my pick. I'm really glad he's coming over because I will feel much better having an experienced keeper giving the yard a good look over. I got a 26" plastic water heater drain pan for a water bowl and the first hide box is almost done being made. I'm going to try giving them free reign of the yard. Hopefully it won't drive me or my dog crazy. Next step is building another hide box and getting some good edibles for them planted.

I will post pictures after I get them!

Advice and suggestions and all that welcome. Not just welcome, begged for! I still have sooooo much to learn!

 

[Yvonne G]

You will need to fence off the planted area because they eat the plants before they can get established.

 

[tortadise]

do you offer any pellet diet? what about supplements?

I sure don't. A did have some croc chow I fed them years back. But being 70 bucks a bag and how quick I ran through it, I halted that diet and moved to worms, and snails for the omnivorous/carnivorous species.

 

[tortadise]

So my co-worker is bringing the three tortoises he's willing to part with over on Saturday so I can take my pick. I'm really glad he's coming over because I will feel much better having an experienced keeper giving the yard a good look over. I got a 26" plastic water heater drain pan for a water bowl and the first hide box is almost done being made. I'm going to try giving them free reign of the yard. Hopefully it won't drive me or my dog crazy. Next step is building another hide box and getting some good edibles for them planted.

I will post pictures after I get them!

Advice and suggestions and all that welcome. Not just welcome, begged for! I still have sooooo much to learn!

We will help you out. Your in a very very good part of the country for this species. Chances are you can leave out year around.

 

[Alyssa412]

so, I am now the happy new owner of 3 tortoises!!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Those are a nice size. I'm sure you'll be very happy with them.

 

[Amanda81]

Welcome to the world of tortoise ownership. It's great! I just read your thread. Perhaps look under the marketplace section under trading, there's a thread where we all get on there and post what we have to trade or just give away. It's been a great source for me. I just got cactus pads, mulberry leaves, actual mulberry trees, some cold/wet hardy spineless cactus plants, people have A lOT of things to offer. You can work out a trade or if you ain't got stuff for trade perhaps pay for shipping. As for your budget, I would say grow all the food sources you can. Your in a great location to grow about anything. When I first got my torts I started picking edible stuff up off discount rakes. I found grape vine plants for 3 bucks at lowes last year, now you have to get them out the soil they come in due to chemicals and let them grow for about 6 months before you can feed but after that it's a free food source. I have grape vines, banana trees, roses, hibiscus, mallow, purslane, cactus,etc, the list just keeps going. I just picked up like 30 strawberry plants costed $3 for em all at the local nursery. You can pick up or find someone willing to trade stuff all the time. Like me, I have an abundance of hibiscus seed, if you would like some I will send you some for free. Then instead of having to spend 10-12 bucks on 1 plant and wait for chemicals to leach out, you can grow 20-30 plants and it cost ya 0 bucks. Hibiscus are easy care, I do nothing to mine. They are like 5 foot tall, full of leaves and blooms and my torts give them a pretty good beating and they hold up just fine. Good shade makers too. I am dropping a couple other envelopes of seeds off Tuesday for some other folks so if you'd like some just send me a mailing address in a private message, I will send ya out.

 

[Amanda81]

Oh, I meant to mention, where your in Flordia and your torts can stay out year round, you said you was going to let them roam your yard, you could start a completely edible landscape. Before I got my torts I had pretty much gotten rid of all weeds in my yard so when I got torts I was a little short on weeds. I found a lot of seeds online, eBay is good for them. I have also found good graze mixes, a bunch of different weeds and grass seed already mixed, there's a website, groworganic I believe is the name of it, they have good product and cheap prices. I found the website through the forum so if I got it wrong someone one here can tell ya right. I also find a lot of stuff out in woods and along roads. Like I got some roses, they was just growing along the road side, I stopped and dug some up, their not like what you buy in a store but the torts like em. I don't have the same species as you so your foods might be differ then mine. When I started researching about my torts I just went to that specific section and read everything, I would come across a thread that would refer to an older thread, I would read that thread too. I have literally learned all I know from this forum.
Ok sorry for the rambling, I do that often.

 

[harris]

Outstanding! Nice n big and look very healthy! Congrats!!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Wow, those are some good looking Manouria. I agree with @harris and @tortadise, @Yvonne G they are one of the more interesting larger species. They seem to have some little bit of the curiosity of a cat.

And as said, they can really eat. Darth, a 60# male M.e.p., can eat three or five heads of escarole/romaine in one shot, no problem. I whole microwaved acorn squash on top of that, and he'll be good for a day or two, then he can do it all over again. He is also able to take a two pound prickly pear pad (spineless) in one sitting as an alternative to the squash.

I make several piles of food to get him to walk around, he's recuperating from a medical issue, so walking is a good things for him, the bright colored squash leads him from one pile to another.

Will