Cgeyer
New Member
Tom:
The literature is there. You fail to realize it.
Carl
The literature is there. You fail to realize it.
Carl
Did you start it for any reason other than trying to start something, like arguing? You have showed nothing of any proof of anything, not even that you have a clue about tortoises or own any.I am not starting this thread to convince you
Well if you already have such literature, why are you asking us to provide it? Please share what you have found. We are here to learn.Tom:
The literature is there. You fail to realize it.
Carl
He has nothing Tom. He's bored and just wanted to start crap.Well if you already have such literature, why are you asking us to provide it? Please share what you have found. We are here to learn.
I suppose that is possible, but I am not so sure. Many before before him have asked for citations of scientific literature in the face of all this conflicting internet info, and most of them are incredulous when you tell them that there is no such info. No scientific "entity" has done any studies of different ways to raise baby tortoises and what the results are. I can recall the 2003 study that inadvertently, but clearly, showed that pyramiding is not related to protein intake, and clearly is related to humidity, but many people simply dismissed that study as "flawed" for a variety of reasons that they created in their own minds.He has nothing Tom. He's bored and just wanted to start crap.
But he has nothing. Nothing to back up what he says and nothing relating it too tortoises. If he did, he'd show it. I think he's just one of the trolls that likes to start crap and then move on to the next forum. He's only a physician not a scientist and if his profile age is correct, he's likely retired and bored.I suppose that is possible, but I am not so sure. Many before before him have asked for citations of scientific literature in the face of all this conflicting internet info, and most of them are incredulous when you tell them that there is no such info. No scientific "entity" has done any studies of different ways to raise baby tortoises and what the results are. I can recall the 2003 study that inadvertently, but clearly, showed that pyramiding is not related to protein intake, and clearly is related to humidity, but many people simply dismissed that study as "flawed" for a variety of reasons that they created in their own minds.
I've tried to thoughtfully explain the situation. I hope Carl will consider what has been said, and what we have all seen and experienced over the last decade. If he will do the experiments himself, he will see for himself first hand.
I've patiently explained twice why human medicine and even domesticated animals have little relevance in this discussion. We are talking about tortoises, not people. I did not fail to realize there is literature on human babies regarding this subject. I'm well aware of it as my own daughter was right on the verge of FTT for here first year or so, hovering in the 1-4% range. I kept asking the doctors to look at her two 100 pound 5 foot tall grandmothers and great grandmother, and her 4 foot 11 inch tall 115 pound grand father. We did not expect her to be in the top 90% of infant growth rates at any time.Failure to Thrive
Failure to thrive means that a child is not growing as he or she should. Psychological, social, or economic problems within the family almost always play a role in this condition.www.hopkinsmedicine.orgI have many more, but quid pro quoFailure to thrive: when to suspect inborn errors of metabolism - PubMed
Failure to thrive (FTT) is a common symptom, not a diagnosis, of a wide range of childhood diseases. Although FTT is usually caused by inadequate energy intake in diet or constitutional small size, organic pathology should be considered in some cases of FTT. This article is intended to guide...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Nature is the genetics. Nurture is the environmentSigning off for several days.
Hello Carl: One problem with studying "failure to thrive" in the human baby is that human babies are injected on day one of life with a Hepatitis B vaccine, which by the way is totally ridiculous, because Hep B is spread through blood (IV drug users) and sexual contact. By the way, the two Hepatitis B vaccine studies that were done, followed the 170 babies tested for only 4 and 5 days respectively. Mothers are all tested for Hep B during pregnancy. More and more evidence is being exposed that the whole vaccine industry may be causing more problems than it prevents. It is very hard to be open minded when we have been completely brain washed through medical school that vaccines are all "safe and effective". There is not a vaccine on the childhood schedule that has been tested against a true placebo, most are tested against another vaccine that has never been tested against a true placebo (Turtles all the way down).Almost every children’s hospital has a webpage on FTT. There, certainly, is a behavioral component. My slant is to highlight the metabolic component only to emphasize the importance of peer reviewed papers on this topic. I
have trouble with finger pointing. The Broad Institute has a 300 million dollar grant to analyze the human genome with AI. This has huge implications.
I understand this concept. My point to you is that the genes of these non-domesticated animals are fine, with the exceedingly rare exceptions that have been mentioned here on this thread. The problem is the nurture, or lack thereof. We here on TFO are trying to correct this sad situation, now that we have a better understanding of what was wrong previously, and what works best now.Nature is the genetics. Nurture is the environment
Tammy, why don't you take your cup of tea and go sit on your porch?!It's great to have Jeff's input on this thread. When Carl returns, (and I hope you will, Carl,)I think he will be pleased to discover that not only has his thread Thrived exponentially, but it has adapted, evolved and is now beginning to mutate!