Pit Bull put to death for... being a Pit Bull

[reticguy76]

oh my god.

Then why isnt every pit bull, bull terrier, staffordshire terrier a fighting vicious dog ??

Its because you can take any dog and put them in any envionment and they adapt to that environment and upbringing.

Same reason, not every single border collie is an automatic herder. same reason, not every single short-haired pointer wont go out and locate pheasant for a hunter. Same reason, not every single portugese water dog or lab likes water.

Abuse any dog and neglect any dog, and then throw them in a ring with another dog and they are both hungry and all that, any dog will fight. Love and provide proper environment and upbringing to any dog and socialize properly any dog, and you will have a loving, compassionate friend.

can they turn on you ?? of course. any human can turn, any dog, any cat, any rat, any snake, any animal can turn just like that. But the majority of animals/humans raisedin a good wholesome loving environment are far far less likely to turn "bad", than if that animal/human is raised in an abusive, neglectful, non-socialized environment

 

[Ethan D]

to Moss: i am re posting this only because i can not see it posted so here

Did i take the time to read what you "wrote" no, but copy and paste is a marvelous tool isn't it? On the other hand why all the hate for pitbulls? are you one of the ignorant people that can't learn to accept things are different then what you have implanted in your mindset? or are you on here for the sake of causing arguments? Cause with either choice, may i say that you should be a statistic for why humans as a species are the most malicious, cruel, vindictive, pitiful excuse for an intelligent species. Pitbulls do NOTHING in comparison to that of humans.

 

[Jacqui]

Mod stepping in here time... do NOT lower this thread to name calling and other things you all should know is not allowed. This thread will be shut down, if you can not act in a manner befitting this forum and suitable for children to be reading.

 

[CLMoss]

to Moss: i am re posting this only because i can not see it posted so here

Did i take the time to read what you "wrote" no, but copy and paste is a marvelous tool isn't it? On the other hand why all the hate for pitbulls? are you one of the ignorant people that can't learn to accept things are different then what you have implanted in your mindset? or are you on here for the sake of causing arguments? Cause with either choice, may i say that you should be a statistic for why humans as a species are the most malicious, cruel, vindictive, pitiful excuse for an intelligent species. Pitbulls do NOTHING in comparison to that of humans.

First of all I don't hate pits or any other dog or animal. I just feel that responsible people should own them. Sadly advocating this breed of dog without truthful information about them is detrimental to both the breed of dog and the owner. I personally would not have young children and other pets in a home with a pit or any other large breed of dog. As stated in the other posts in this thread, smaller breeds of dog can do enough damage when they bite. I would not subject a child or other pet to the chance of this happening. I would not define a pet as something that can do major harm to any family member, it being a human or a pet. But, this is my opinion. I do object to dangerous animals roaming the streets where I live (it being a pit or a tiger).



Regarding cut & past, I am just sick of parroting the same stuff to the point of nauseam. One should have a reasonable amount of information about a subject before going all over the place with useless references.



Before you accuse me of being such a nasty person, maybe you should actually read what I said in my first post in this thread. What is important in a discussion is coming out of it maybe learning something... Sadly, you have taught me nothing.

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I First of all I don't hate pits or any other dog or animal. I just feel that responsible people should own them. Sadly advocating this breed of dog without truthful information about them is detrimental to both the breed of dog and the owner. I personally would not have young children and other pets in a home with a pit or any other large breed of dog. As stated in the other posts in this thread, smaller breeds of dog can do enough damage when they bite. I would not subject a child or other pet to the chance of this happening. I would not define a pet as something that can do major harm to any family member, it being a human or a pet. But, this is my opinion. I do object to dangerous animals roaming the streets where I live (it being a pit or a tiger).



Regarding cut & past, I am just sick of parroting the same stuff to the point of nauseam. One should have a reasonable amount of information about a subject before going all over the place with useless references.



Before you accuse me of being such a nasty person, maybe you should actually read what I said in my first post in this thread. What is important in a discussion is coming out of it maybe learning something... Sadly, you have taught me nothing.
will repost in the event you missed it:

 

[Tom]

CL, now I think we are all understanding each other better. We have a philosophical disagreement about big dogs and their role in families and society in general. I agree with you that people should understand what they are getting, with any dog, and many don't. I agree with you that any dog (and most animals for that matter) is a potential risk to children. I understand your choice to not subject a child to this potential risk. All I ask you to understand is that pit bulls are truly no worse than German shepards or labs or golden retrievers or beagles in this respect. I have no stake in this. I gain nothing by having this argument. It just pains me to see misinformation perpetuated.

Further, while I admit that dogs and other pets CAN be a risk to a child, they can also be of huge benefit in many ways. To only focus on what could potentially go wrong, and ignore the love and lessons gained from a pet dog, is a pretty one sided way to look at things. I mean no offense, but for me, both sides of that coin must be looked at. Speaking only about my home, our lives are truly enriched by the presence of our dogs. My daughter loves and plays with them, and my dogs would literally have to be dead before anyone could harm that little girl. The stories of chilrden being attacked by dogs are horrid, but I know a lot of stories of dogs protecting children and preventing them from coming to harm too. Many of these positive stories feature pit bulls.

 

[Ethan D]

CL, now I think we are all understanding each other better. We have a philosophical disagreement about big dogs and their role in families and society in general. I agree with you that people should understand what they are getting, with any dog, and many don't. I agree with you that any dog (and most animals for that matter) is a potential risk to children. I understand your choice to not subject a child to this potential risk. All I ask you to understand is that pit bulls are truly no worse than German shepards or labs or golden retrievers or beagles in this respect. I have no stake in this. I gain nothing by having this argument. It just pains me to see misinformation perpetuated.

Further, while I admit that dogs and other pets CAN be a risk to a child, they can also be of huge benefit in many ways. To only focus on what could potentially go wrong, and ignore the love and lessons gained from a pet dog, is a pretty one sided way to look at things. I mean no offense, but for me, both sides of that coin must be looked at. Speaking only about my home, our lives are truly enriched by the presence of our dogs. My daughter loves and plays with them, and my dogs would literally have to be dead before anyone could harm that little girl. The stories of chilrden being attacked by dogs are horrid, but I know a lot of stories of dogs protecting children and preventing them from coming to harm too. Many of these positive stories feature pit bulls.

This is an off topic question, but what is the breed of tortoise in your picture? is it by chance a leopard?

 

[CLMoss]

CL, now I think we are all understanding each other better. We have a philosophical disagreement about big dogs and their role in families and society in general. I agree with you that people should understand what they are getting, with any dog, and many don't. I agree with you that any dog (and most animals for that matter) is a potential risk to children. I understand your choice to not subject a child to this potential risk. All I ask you to understand is that pit bulls are truly no worse than German shepards or labs or golden retrievers or beagles in this respect. I have no stake in this. I gain nothing by having this argument. It just pains me to see misinformation perpetuated.

Further, while I admit that dogs and other pets CAN be a risk to a child, they can also be of huge benefit in many ways. To only focus on what could potentially go wrong, and ignore the love and lessons gained from a pet dog, is a pretty one sided way to look at things. I mean no offense, but for me, both sides of that coin must be looked at. Speaking only about my home, our lives are truly enriched by the presence of our dogs. My daughter loves and plays with them, and my dogs would literally have to be dead before anyone could harm that little girl. The stories of chilrden being attacked by dogs are horrid, but I know a lot of stories of dogs protecting children and preventing them from coming to harm too. Many of these positive stories feature pit bulls.

This is an off topic question, but what is the breed of tortoise in your picture? is it by chance a leopard?

My tortoise is a SL Star Tortoise.

 

[Ethan D]

CL, now I think we are all understanding each other better. We have a philosophical disagreement about big dogs and their role in families and society in general. I agree with you that people should understand what they are getting, with any dog, and many don't. I agree with you that any dog (and most animals for that matter) is a potential risk to children. I understand your choice to not subject a child to this potential risk. All I ask you to understand is that pit bulls are truly no worse than German shepards or labs or golden retrievers or beagles in this respect. I have no stake in this. I gain nothing by having this argument. It just pains me to see misinformation perpetuated.

Further, while I admit that dogs and other pets CAN be a risk to a child, they can also be of huge benefit in many ways. To only focus on what could potentially go wrong, and ignore the love and lessons gained from a pet dog, is a pretty one sided way to look at things. I mean no offense, but for me, both sides of that coin must be looked at. Speaking only about my home, our lives are truly enriched by the presence of our dogs. My daughter loves and plays with them, and my dogs would literally have to be dead before anyone could harm that little girl. The stories of chilrden being attacked by dogs are horrid, but I know a lot of stories of dogs protecting children and preventing them from coming to harm too. Many of these positive stories feature pit bulls.

This is an off topic question, but what is the breed of tortoise in your picture? is it by chance a leopard?

My tortoise is a SL Star Tortoise.

cool, i was asking tom though...... lol, but i do hear stars are hard to care for, quite a commitment too! and from what i have seen very pricy :/

 

[Tom]

Ethan, let's take the off topic stuff to PMs. That is one of my 2010 South African Leopards for my avatar.

 

[CLMoss]

CL, now I think we are all understanding each other better. We have a philosophical disagreement about big dogs and their role in families and society in general. I agree with you that people should understand what they are getting, with any dog, and many don't. I agree with you that any dog (and most animals for that matter) is a potential risk to children. I understand your choice to not subject a child to this potential risk. All I ask you to understand is that pit bulls are truly no worse than German shepards or labs or golden retrievers or beagles in this respect. I have no stake in this. I gain nothing by having this argument. It just pains me to see misinformation perpetuated.

Further, while I admit that dogs and other pets CAN be a risk to a child, they can also be of huge benefit in many ways. To only focus on what could potentially go wrong, and ignore the love and lessons gained from a pet dog, is a pretty one sided way to look at things. I mean no offense, but for me, both sides of that coin must be looked at. Speaking only about my home, our lives are truly enriched by the presence of our dogs. My daughter loves and plays with them, and my dogs would literally have to be dead before anyone could harm that little girl. The stories of chilrden being attacked by dogs are horrid, but I know a lot of stories of dogs protecting children and preventing them from coming to harm too. Many of these positive stories feature pit bulls.

Well Tom, I think that you are right. I am afraid of large dogs. I did grow up with a Welsh Terrier that was a wonderful loving dog. He was my protector and anybody who wanted to come close to me had to meet his approval. Our next family dog was another Welsh Terrier who bit almost everybody in the neighborhood. When he bit my sister, he almost ripped her bottom lip off and she needed forty something stitches to fix her up. Soon after he "Sandy" made his way upstate to live in a farm... I have to say that most of the large dogs I remember when I was growing up were behind fences. Not too many people walked their dogs unless they lived in area apartment buildings, and they all seemed to be small dogs.



When the pits became popular and made it to my area which happens to be a good area in Brooklyn (no gangs), is when I was told about the old man who's dog was killed by a pit. I had a Peke at the time and this story broke my heart. I truly never heard of anything like this before. I was devastated and waited over twenty five years or so to get another Pekingese. The fear of experiencing what the old man had experienced was too overwhelming for me.



I have read about pits and have heard of both good and bad stories about them, but what really amazes me is how defensive people get when something negative is said about them. And again it is all parroting the same old thing without any intelligent information. Always lists of breeds that are bred to be guard dogs. And like I said in my other post that they are purchased to be guard dogs (when I spoke about them not being cheap) and in some cases not pets. Also I know of professional dog trainers who feel the same as I do, and I will repeat, that they are not for everybody. And when I confront these pit bull advocates they have nothing to say except, "Well we have to agree to disagree." That does not teach me anything.



And please understand that I know about statistics. I graduated college with a bachelors degree in Psychology. I studied statistics. I know that depending on the source, stats can be skewed. But I always read between the line and weigh the pros and cons of each discussion.

What really makes me sick is all of the blood shed due to ignorance about the breed. Both children being maimed and dogs (pits) being put down due to lack of honest information.

 

[Laura]

oh my god.

Then why isnt every pit bull, bull terrier, staffordshire terrier a fighting vicious dog ??

Its because you can take any dog and put them in any envionment and they adapt to that environment and upbringing.

Same reason, not every single border collie is an automatic herder. same reason, not every single short-haired pointer wont go out and locate pheasant for a hunter. Same reason, not every single portugese water dog or lab likes water.

Laura+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++says:

its Not ALL upbringing. Its instinct. Its what they are. A good hunting dog, Retriever etc. some are better than others.. some can be trained to be better and hone thier instincts and some are just not that good. I see a lot of issues with Pits and mixes.. but I also see A lot of pits. They are a very common dog. Shelters are FULL of them. Hence the FREE spay neuter progams at Most shelters for them. They do need a certain training and understanding. Sometimes it IS the fault or ignorance of an owner.. They seem to have a slightly different body langauge.. and even the groups who are advocates for the breed will tell some people.. 'Don't take your dog to the dog park.. he may not be the one to start a fight.. but he will end it. ' they tell people that to Protect the dog, owner, breed.

Abuse any dog and neglect any dog, and then throw them in a ring with another dog and they are both hungry and all that, any dog will fight. Love and provide proper environment and upbringing to any dog and socialize properly any dog, and you will have a loving, compassionate friend.

can they turn on you ?? of course. any human can turn, any dog, any cat, any rat, any snake, any animal can turn just like that. But the majority of animals/humans raisedin a good wholesome loving environment are far far less likely to turn "bad", than if that animal/human is raised in an abusive, neglectful, non-socialized environment

 

[mary t]

My opinion means nothing on this thread but.. My husband is a police officer unfortunately where we live he has had to answer calls for many many dog bites, attacks, most all of them were the fault of either the owner or the child/ person not respecting the animals space. I have a very well trained malinois and a stubborn Werner dog.. My tort is bigger than my weiner dog but as an educated owner of both my breeds I watch both of them with anyone that is not a family member. I know my malinois wouldn't hurt a fly but nobody who comes in my yard knows that, I would be more nervous of the little one actually doing something because everyone wants to touch her and put their face in hers... Ignorance if you ask me,. My boys grew up with a chow chow that protected them whenever she was around, slept between there beds till the day she died.. I watched her like a hawk, I hand raised her from a week of age and she bite me the day she died.. Me why because she had been hit by a car and I tried to get her out from under it.. Did I blame her,, hell no, it was my fault not hers... People need to take responsibility - for their actions, their children's actions and their pets actions through their training- if that is the case..

 

[Tom]

CL, Do you wish to discuss this further? I'm not saying that we should agree to disagree, but I don't want to continue pushing my POV if it's not wanted.

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

I don't get how me pushing the fact that genetics matter has turned in to me saying that all pit bulls kill people. Because if you read what I posted, that's not what I was saying at all.

Not every dog can adapt to their environment. Most can, but if genetics are pulling them too far one way or the other, it just isn't going to happen.

 

[Nixxy]

Pitbulls bite force are not even close to half of that of a Kangal's, which is perfectly legal. They have record setting 700+ PSI, whereas a pitbull's average is around 235. (Shepards around 240, Rottis around 300).

 

[CLMoss]

This is my friend Robert's photo. He was taking his dog out for a walk when three pits attacked his dog. While trying to protect his dog this is what happend to him.

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CL, Do you wish to discuss this further? I'm not saying that we should agree to disagree, but I don't want to continue pushing my POV if it's not wanted.

Hi Tom, I am fine with discussing this further. At least you get where I am coming from. I don't consider you one of those jerks that would say something like "agree to disagree."

 

[Atra42o]

Hmmmm... this thread has opened my eyes to a lot of different views, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As my opinion is concerned, I think pitbulls make WONDERFUL family members, if u treat them right, train them, and are educated. As I said before, I'm a firm believer in "it's all in how they r raised" theory. In my case, my Diesel (my 18 month old blue Pitbull) is the smartest, friendliest (to both people and animals), sweetest, n lovable dog I have ever met, known, heard of or seen, and I'm not a so called "dog" person, but I love him to death. As I've said in previous posts, we didn't know pitbulls were banned at our old house, but as soon as we did, we moved because we didnt want to give up one of our family members. For those of u who didn't read my previous posts, I encourage u to, so that u can c the other side of pitbulls. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it helps to see others points of views so u can see where they are coming from. I make sure to do it all the time, not because I feel it will help prove my pov to be the "right" way of seeing things, but because I'm genuinely interested in what they have to say =)

 

[Laura]

This is my friend Robert's photo. He was taking his dog out for a walk when three pits attacked his dog. While trying to protect his dog this is what happend to him.

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CL, Do you wish to discuss this further? I'm not saying that we should agree to disagree, but I don't want to continue pushing my POV if it's not wanted.

Hi Tom, I am fine with discussing this further. At least you get where I am coming from. I don't consider you one of those jerks that would say something like "agree to disagree."


There is a lady near Turlock ca. out for a walk in the orchard.. chased and surrounded by Boxers... They took turns going after her, shredded her legs, tore her clothes off. She barely made it home.. almost died, Im not sure if she can walk yet. But we also had a famous case her in Auburn where a teenager was walking to dinner and was attacked by 4 loose pits. The owners fought to save those dogs. One was saved by a rescue place down south, but that was after one of the dogs also attacked the rescue lady.. she didnt save that one. The kid only survived because some people drove up and he was able to get into a car..
Not sure what my point was going to be here.. HA!

---

 

[Atra42o]

Just wanted to add that we haven't had to train him for any type I'd bad or aggressive behavior. We've potty trained him, obviously lol (btw, he has NEVER had any accidents in the house, no matter how long we've had to be away) and taught him tricks (paw (both), speak, choosing the had w/the treat, sit, stay, lay down) all which took less than a day for him to learn. Which helps to prove my point that they are an INCREDIBLY intelligent breed. Also, he rarely barks at anyone, even when dogs want to check him out. He actually gets excited when he sees new dogs he's never met. His best friend is my next door neighbor's "hot dog" renee ; ) but we do have a fence so he can't get out w/o us (mind u he's never tried lol) and are very aware of our surroundings when we have him out. We know what his breed is capable of and keep that in mind at all times, especially because he does look very intimidating (he's 98lbs and has an enormous head lol) We also teach our children never to touch any dog, strange or not, w/o asking the owner and how to approach animals in general =)

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

People have been debating "nature vs. nurture" for 2,000 years, but there is finally a consensus view, known as "nature via nurture." This means that behavior is ultimately determined by genes, but is shaped by the environment. This is why both temperament and upbringing matter in how a dog (or person, or any other animal) will behave as an adult.

We can't ignore genes or lineage when evaluating canine behavior. Wild wolves (dogs' ancestors) have a wide repertoire of behaviors for communicating friendliness, submission, aggression, and so on. Domestic dogs that have not been altered very much through selective breeding still have all these behaviors. However, more derived breeds have lost some of these behaviors, and may be more prone to fighting due to communication errors with other dogs or with people.

Add to this the fact that different breeds have been artificially selected for different roles, such as herding, guarding, and unfortunately, fighting. It is sad but true that, over the past couple centuries, some types of dogs were bred specifically to fight other dogs, or other animals like bulls, bears, etc. These were the "bull-dogs," and they were very strong and aggressive.

Today, some of these bull-type dogs have undergone selection to breed some of this aggression back out of them. This is why some of them can make good pets. An obvious example is today's English bulldog; this modern midget is a far cry from the powerful Old English bulldog, and is quite docile. However, for other breeds (pit bull, Staffordshire, American bull dog, cane corso, presa canario), there are only lines or strains that are more docile, but they still look just like their fighting stock brethren. Just by looking at them, it is virtually impossible to know how much non-fighting selection they have undergone. Some of these dogs may still carry the genes that made them good fighters: genes for aggression, tenacity, etc.

In my view, these descendants of gladiator dogs are too dangerous to be kept in typical urban and suburban environments. They may have the calm temperament of a pet, or they may retain the temperament of their fighting ancestors. And how would you know just be looking at them? You wouldn't. So, as long as they look like a bully dog, I think they are potentially dangerous. This is why I am in favor of bans on pit bulls, and even other bully breeds.