New to forum (sick sulcata)

[dlarmstrong]

Thanks for the approval to join, new to torts and have 2 baby Sulcata's about 3 months old. I live in Southern California inland empire area, rainy and about 70 degrees now but summers can be in the 100's and dry.

The torts are indoors all day, when summer was around they went outside when I could watch them. Other than that they were indoors near a window and had a UVB and heat lamps on them, I have crushed coconut as the substrate.

Joined because I got a scare with one of them not moving around much the last three days and he hasn't eaten anything, I noticed his shell was soft and his belly was really soft. He was very active up till about three days ago. He pretty much finds a nice warm spot and goes to sleep. My other one is still very active and eating. In fact they have reversed roles, the other one was the younger of the two and was sleeping most of the time

I did find out that I was given some incorrect info on feeding and they have been given mostly store bought leafy greens with some Masuri given maybe once every two weeks, sprinkled calcium w/d3 (no phos) on the food pretty much daily, soaked pretty much every day.

Reading here I see I should be giving them calcium w/d3 and phos ? and should soak with vitasol in the water ?


Could use some expert advice on what I could be doing wrong to the little guy, I did read to do a warmer water soak in case he was blocked up and he did get pretty active and eat a little afterward.

Thanks again for any advice.

 

[Jacqui]

RE: New to forum

Hi! Sorry to have you joining us for such a bad reason. You need to as much as possible get them out under the real sun. What kind of UVB light did you get? With the problems here you need a really good one that is strong enough and placed a proper distance from their shells. Unless they get the good UVB rays (they won't go through normal window glass), they can take and make use of calcium. Next on the agenda is the calcium. Have you been giving them any calcium on their food? If not, you need to do so. Try the warm soaks and add the vitasol or I like the liquid calcium, along with babyfood such as carrots. Try these soaks a couple three times a day for now. Seeing a good reptile Vet is also recommended for the things he may be able to also do. I would also up the amount of days your feeding Mazuri (if they really like it) or to make sure your feeding some really good food value greens.

I want to stress this straight, your baby is in serious life threatening trouble. You maybe can still save him, but your going to have to work at it.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Sorry, for the conditions in which your first post has too be. Jacqui has given great advice. Good luck. Also, be sure to read Toms threads below in my post for raising Sullies.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi:

Welcome to the Forum!

When a baby tortoise is soft it is because he hasn't been able to make vitamin d3 to get the calcium to work in his body. They need either the sun or a good UVB light to do that.

Your most important thing to do for this baby is UVB, either from the sun or a good light, and calcium. What kind of UVB light are you using?

While he is sick it would be a good idea to set him up separately from the other baby and make his habitat warm all over, no temperature gradient. I would strive for about 85F.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.
First read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html
Do you know how these babies were started?

Next read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79895.html
Outside all day in our climate is a death sentence for baby sulcatas. It is too dry. It turns their insides into beef jerky. For a baby you need to be simulating the African rainy season that the wild ones hatch into. Hot, humid, wet and rainy. Puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere.

Here is a diet sheet: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html
Don't worry about phosphorous, D3 and all that stuff. Just get a reptile calcium supplement, and sprinkle a tiny pinch on the food twice a week. In our climate they get plenty of sun so it doesn't matter if the supplement has D3 or not.

Hopefully you will have lots of questions after those three threads. We are here to help.

 

[dlarmstrong]

RE: New to forum

Hi! Sorry to have you joining us for such a bad reason. You need to as much as possible get them out under the real sun. What kind of UVB light did you get? With the problems here you need a really good one that is strong enough and placed a proper distance from their shells. Unless they get the good UVB rays (they won't go through normal window glass), they can take and make use of calcium. Next on the agenda is the calcium. Have you been giving them any calcium on their food? If not, you need to do so. Try the warm soaks and add the vitasol or I like the liquid calcium, along with babyfood such as carrots. Try these soaks a couple three times a day for now. Seeing a good reptile Vet is also recommended for the things he may be able to also do. I would also up the amount of days your feeding Mazuri (if they really like it) or to make sure your feeding some really good food value greens.

I want to stress this straight, your baby is in serious life threatening trouble. You maybe can still save him, but your going to have to work at it.

Thanks for the quick replies,
Yes I have been giving them Calcium daily but only with D3 in it not with Phos because several sites I read up on said not to give them Phos. I has also read on many sites not to give them the Masuri daily because it had too much Protein in it and to only give it once a week (I have had Masuri in there for him daily the last three days though). The lighting is 2x 13w ZooMed 10.0 UVB bulbs that are about 6 inches away from them over head, plus 2 basking lights 75w each, the table runs about 85-95 degrees. It is too cold for them to be outside now I would think, it is 68-70 degrees right now with rain.

They have had a variety of leafy greens, but sounds like baby food might be a better choice ?

What else can I answer or do, I should have found this site sooner. Thanks again

 

[dlarmstrong]

Hello and welcome.
First read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html
Do you know how these babies were started?

Next read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79895.html
Outside all day in our climate is a death sentence for baby sulcatas. It is too dry. It turns their insides into beef jerky. For a baby you need to be simulating the African rainy season that the wild ones hatch into. Hot, humid, wet and rainy. Puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere.

Here is a diet sheet: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html
Don't worry about phosphorous, D3 and all that stuff. Just get a reptile calcium supplement, and sprinkle a tiny pinch on the food twice a week. In our climate they get plenty of sun so it doesn't matter if the supplement has D3 or not.

Hopefully you will have lots of questions after those three threads. We are here to help.

I believe they were born in Palmdale California, pretty dry and hot desert area but does have very cold winters with some snow. The enclosure is indoors all the time, they have been outside partial days during the warmer weather but the last 3 weeks have been pretty cold here. The humidity in the enclosure runs about 50-60 percent but has been closer to 20 percent during the hotter part of the summer.

 

[Jacqui]

RE: New to forum

They have had a variety of leafy greens, but sounds like baby food might be a better choice ?

I wasn't too clear, sorry. Use the babyfood in with the warm soaks. Still be offering the greens and Mazuri.

I don't use that exact light, so let's wait for somebody who knows it to answer how good it is. 6" sounds close to me, but once again I am not knowing the light style you have.

 

[dlarmstrong]

Hello and welcome.
First read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html
Do you know how these babies were started?

Next read this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79895.html
Outside all day in our climate is a death sentence for baby sulcatas. It is too dry. It turns their insides into beef jerky. For a baby you need to be simulating the African rainy season that the wild ones hatch into. Hot, humid, wet and rainy. Puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere.

Here is a diet sheet: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html
Don't worry about phosphorous, D3 and all that stuff. Just get a reptile calcium supplement, and sprinkle a tiny pinch on the food twice a week. In our climate they get plenty of sun so it doesn't matter if the supplement has D3 or not.

Hopefully you will have lots of questions after those three threads. We are here to help.

Read through the first one, got to say there are a lot of websites out there that we went to to read up and get info before we even received the torts and most of that info contradicts what I am learning here. I was told absolutely not to have any humidity in the tank, not to give Masuri on a regular basis but as a once a month type supplement. So much bad info and it is killing my baby.

The hide that have is a sand stone structure I built and it hold moisture for quite a while so I started to soak that now, I also just put medium bunch (two large handfuls) of soaked Spaghmoss in a corner next to the hide as well. Got some liquid vitamins and calcium for reptiles by Zilla or ZooMed I forget and soaked them for about 15 mins so far.

Is there a way or is it not suggested to try and get some liquid vitamins and food into the mouth of the little guy ??

BTW UPDATE: I soaked him yesterday after my initial post and he woke up, got active munched down on some food, zipped around the enclosure and ate a bit more and then crashed under the basking light, he is pretty lethargic today, i gave him a warm soak with some calcium and vitamins in the water.. Not real sure how I am suppose to do the baby food during the soak, can I get more detail on that.

Back to reading and thank you a bunch, hopefully it is not too late to save him

 

[Jacqui]

When you go to soak just add some baby food into the water with the vitamins/liquid calcium and mix well, insert baby tortoise. Just keep the water warm and at the level of where the two shells meet.

 

[dlarmstrong]

They have had a variety of leafy greens, but sounds like baby food might be a better choice ?

I wasn't too clear, sorry. Use the babyfood in with the warm soaks. Still be offering the greens and Mazuri.

I don't use that exact light, so let's wait for somebody who knows it to answer how good it is. 6" sounds close to me, but once again I am not knowing the light style you have.

Here are the two lights, didnt have any rhyme/reason for picking these exact ones but they were the only ones available at the 2 shops I had to choose from. These sit on a wire mesh framed on the top of the tub I have the guys in, it has about a 6" clearance between them and the lights. Does that sound good, adequate or noobish and I should be slapped.

ZooMed ReptiSun 10.0 13w compact flour
ExoTerra Reptile UVB 150 13w compact flour

 

[Tom]

Those bulbs sometimes burn reptile eyes. I would not use them. You need a long tube type florescent UV bulb, a mercury vapor bulb, or no artificial UV bulb at all since you live in a great climate and your tortoises can get sunshine year round. They are fine if you skip a week or two for cold weather.

Only use calcium a couple of times a week. If you use it everyday it interferes with the absorption of other important nutrients and elements.

Where in the world your tortoises hatched does not matter. What matters is how they were cared for in their first few days and weeks. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy, wet, marshy and there is food growing everywhere. Keeping them dry is a thing of the past, but it still kills babies on a regular basis, as it has for decades. Here is a thread about it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html

When you've got all this sorted out, we can talk about separating your babies. They should not be housed in pairs. One of them will always suffer in that arrangement.

 

[mainey34]

Hello and welcome. Well, its unfortunate that many noobies get a big scare and have to read such a horrible thread right off the bat. Anyways...the bulbs you have are not good for your babies. People have complained that they have caused problems with their eyes. Some with permanent damage. Coil bulbs are not good. So i would discontinue them immediately. Next they are too close. I believe they need to be 10-12" . Calcium needs to be added 2 times per week. They really dont need that much. They get calcium from their food source also. Too much calcium will cause health problems also. Warm soaks a couple times a day is good for them. They need hydration. They should have a warm humid home to live in. If your light source is resting on top of your screen top they are not getting the full effect of the uva rays that they need (when you replace the bulbs). What type of set up are they in? Thir temps should run 105 hot, 90-95 warm, 85-80 cool...but never below 80. Humidity should be 80% and above. Your substrate (bedding) sounds fine.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

The only thing I want to add, since all the experts have given you great advise, is stay positive ... we are all pulling that this baby pulls through. : )

 

[dlarmstrong]

The only thing I want to add, since all the experts have given you great advise, is stay positive ... we are all pulling that this baby pulls through. : )

thanks, I am working hard on this each moment. Funny thing happened just now. I used a spray bottle to spray some warm mist into the tank and he woke up all energetic and took off around the tank, sipped some water from the tray i feed them on and walked a bit more and then back to sleep. Humidity in the tank is about 80 now. Now he never had a problem drinking when I soaked him but nice to see he went for a sip at the tray, even his buddy who never drinks when we soak went over and had some water too. They both seemed to enjoy the misting though.

 

[mainey34]

The only thing I want to add, since all the experts have given you great advise, is stay positive ... we are all pulling that this baby pulls through. : )

thanks, I am working hard on this each moment. Funny thing happened just now. I used a spray bottle to spray some warm mist into the tank and he woke up all energetic and took off around the tank, sipped some water from the tray i feed them on and walked a bit more and then back to sleep. Humidity in the tank is about 80 now. Now he never had a problem drinking when I soaked him but nice to see he went for a sip at the tray, even his buddy who never drinks when we soak went over and had some water too. They both seemed to enjoy the misting though.

This is great news to hear. Please keep us updated. How are your temps?

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Yay! Awesome. Animal instinct. They intuitively know that this is good for them. Happy. I am telling you, the experts are right on, tortoises love the spa as much as we do! Hot and humid = healthy and happy. Woo hoo! Tomorrow its suppose to be sunny after the morning clouds, and then in the 70's 3 days straight. Sunshine time for babies, supervised of course. Even 20 minutes daily, or even twice daily, should help! : )