Just out of curiosity... Will cherry heads mate with normal redfoots and produce fertile eggs?
Will cherry heads mate with normal redfoots?
- Thread starter redfoottorts
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Yes 
Cherryheads ARE redfoots.
So, yes.
So, yes.
redfoottorts said:
Did someone tell you that cherryheads are abnormal??? Or that they aren't redfoot tortoises?
Regardless what you call their first name their last name is 'carbonaria' which means redfoot tortoise.
And before I put the "barrier" up.. my 'northern' males bred with my Brazilian ( AKA Cherryhead ) female and produced babies that look like this -
Terry K
Still VERY pretty color, the little nose, and your smooth shell. lovely, Terry
I thought you weren't supposed to breed Redfoots and Cherryheads together. I thought someone on here once posted not to mix them up like that. Now I'm confused.
Confusing is the name of the game!
I'm not making a judgment call on this, Just stating an opinion.
Crosses happen! Crosses between sub-species (or types in the case of Redfoots) & sometimes between species like Redfoots & Yellowfoots. Sometimes a cross occurs in the wild. This is just natures way of testing new ideas.
Crosses occur in captivity for 2 reasons.
1) The keeper not realizing that the animals are sexually mature. This happens more often than you might think.
2) The keepers deliberately place sexually mature animals of different species / sib-species / type together with the intention of producing a "Highbred" or cross of those animals. This is done for varying reasons.
The reasons for deliberate crosses? Here are a few & I'm sure I will miss some too.
1) To make a stronger animal. "Highbred vigor". The crosses are usually genetically stronger that the originals. Look it up.
2) To make a better looking animal. The looks are what sell! Just ask Bill Love!
3) Just to see if it will work! (In my opinion the silliest of all!)
Again not making the call. Just stating the "How & Why" that I have seen with my own eye's.
The "Purists" would say this should never be done.
On the other hand, If we never try anything new we will never learn what the possibility's are! (if memory serves, that was the gist of 1 conversation with B.L. on breeding)
My personal thoughts?
I do think that we need to keep "PURE" bloodlines of all species / types!
I also believe that we should see just "What the possibility's are"!
& last but not least!
If you crossbreed for what ever reason, Don't pass offspring off as something they are not.
I'm not making a judgment call on this, Just stating an opinion.
Crosses happen! Crosses between sub-species (or types in the case of Redfoots) & sometimes between species like Redfoots & Yellowfoots. Sometimes a cross occurs in the wild. This is just natures way of testing new ideas.
Crosses occur in captivity for 2 reasons.
1) The keeper not realizing that the animals are sexually mature. This happens more often than you might think.
2) The keepers deliberately place sexually mature animals of different species / sib-species / type together with the intention of producing a "Highbred" or cross of those animals. This is done for varying reasons.
The reasons for deliberate crosses? Here are a few & I'm sure I will miss some too.
1) To make a stronger animal. "Highbred vigor". The crosses are usually genetically stronger that the originals. Look it up.
2) To make a better looking animal. The looks are what sell! Just ask Bill Love!
3) Just to see if it will work! (In my opinion the silliest of all!)
Again not making the call. Just stating the "How & Why" that I have seen with my own eye's.
The "Purists" would say this should never be done.
On the other hand, If we never try anything new we will never learn what the possibility's are! (if memory serves, that was the gist of 1 conversation with B.L. on breeding)
My personal thoughts?
I do think that we need to keep "PURE" bloodlines of all species / types!
I also believe that we should see just "What the possibility's are"!
& last but not least!
If you crossbreed for what ever reason, Don't pass offspring off as something they are not.
Cherryheads ARE redfoots.
Why would anyone think they are not??
Stagger is a mix. His father is a Nothern and his mother is a Cherryhead.
Did I purchase him like that intentionally??
No. I didn't care. He's a redfoot tortoise, and he's healthy.
That's all that matters to me.
Why would anyone think they are not??
Stagger is a mix. His father is a Nothern and his mother is a Cherryhead.
Did I purchase him like that intentionally??
No. I didn't care. He's a redfoot tortoise, and he's healthy.
That's all that matters to me.
Who said they are not Redfoots?
They are Redfoots, Although NOT the same TYPE (possibly a sub-species) as a northern.
They are Redfoots, Although NOT the same TYPE (possibly a sub-species) as a northern.
Candy said:
Even if they are considered a "sub-species", and I won't argue that as I do not care to, people in the reptile hobby world have been breeding sub-species to species to sub-species, etc...for years.
Look how the leopard gecko was created.
It's not like people are breeding completely different species together to create "hybrids".
It's not like breeding a crested gecko with a gargoyle gecko (ew).
yeah I know they are still redfoots I just wasnt sure if they would mate. Kinda like a chihuahua and a golden retriever, Although thats an exaggeration...
t_mclellan said:
Thank you Tom for your response, but me myself want purebreds.
Meg found one on Craiglists and was nice enough to send me a picture and I posted pictures of it here on the forum and a lot of people said it didn't look like a purebred Cherryhead. I want one just like my Dale. 
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They can produce fertile offspring as Terry has shown above. That said my personal opinion is that there is so much variability in shell, scale, and skin color between any RF locale that it isn't necessary to cross these animals intentionally. The real problem is when people have crosses and either by ignorance or a lack of honesty sell them as pure bloodlines. Between Northerns, Cherryheads, and Gran Chaco Redfoots there's something for everyone's tastes IMO.
Let's not forget the Southerns either.. the big ones!
And some even like the "crosses".. intentional or otherwise. Let's also remember that there are a great number of 'locale' crosses as a result of being imported from every region over the past 4+ decades... [ in other words.. finding "pure-locale" captive hatched can be a challenge as well! ]
Terry K
And some even like the "crosses".. intentional or otherwise. Let's also remember that there are a great number of 'locale' crosses as a result of being imported from every region over the past 4+ decades... [ in other words.. finding "pure-locale" captive hatched can be a challenge as well! ]
Terry K
Chewbecca said:
At least one scientist in Europe feels that the Red-foots should be broken in at least three different species or sub-species or a combination. (I'm sorry I cannot put my finger on his name or the article right now. I found it originally by accident and cannot relocate it.)
The thing is that 'Brazilian red morphs' breed true and have several anatomic and behavioral differences from the Northerners. The same is true for the big old guys in the Gran Chaco area. That alone makes them good candidates for being sub-species.
They are all considered Red-foots RIGHT NOW, but that does not mean they will always be considered as such.
Nonetheless- they obviously can interbreed and share similar cares to their Northern buddies.
Guys the Q? was: Can the different locales comingle and produce off-spring and the answer is yes. It happens all of the time whether we like it or not. Sometimes MAN helps to "survive" different locale differences.. sometimes we don't - and that includes ALL of us - yes you and me!
He wasn't asking for opinions or emotional driven judgements - just a simple yes or no.
NERD
He wasn't asking for opinions or emotional driven judgements - just a simple yes or no.
NERD
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Let the thread starter tell us what he wanted to know. Some of us answered his question and then gave our opinions on hybridization. He will do whatever he wants to in either buying a hybrid or producing them. Message boards are for discussion, and discussing the pro's and cons of this is a very important part of what makes this board a place for opinions to be expressed and heard.
My question has been answered and I find the discussion interesting..
and I find the discussion interesting..
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I'm glad that your question has been answered and that you appreciate more than a yes or no answer
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