Whitei(?) care advice needed

[Silfalion]

Hey guys, I'm very new to tortoises care and winter is building up here so I wanted to get info about how to take care of my tortoise.

I'm kinda sure it's a whitei and I've attached a couple pics. Could anyone confirm it, please?

Also, is 17 degrees to cold for her(I think it's a her)?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
There is a good post, covering all the main aspects of caring for "temperate species" (link). 17C is low and she might start preparing herself for a winter brumation. If you want to keep her awake in the winter, then she should be housed indoors (with bright enough lights and warm temperatures).
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I don't know what "whitei" is, cannot help on that, sorry
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If you have any questions - please ask.

 

[turtlesteve]

It is one of the North African subspecies for sure. It is very hard to differentiate tortoises from Libya all the way to Morocco visually, so I would not be certain it is T.g.whitei without DNA testing being done.

Care is not grossly different than for other Greek tortoises, but there is debate about how much cold these tolerate, etc, and how to keep them in winter.

 

[Silfalion]

Hello!
There is a good post, covering all the main aspects of caring for "temperate species" (link). 17C is low and she might start preparing herself for a winter brumation. If you want to keep her awake in the winter, then she should be housed indoors (with bright enough lights and warm temperatures).
-
I don't know what "whitei" is, cannot help on that, sorry
-
If you have any questions - please ask.

Thanks a lot! I don't have much preferences for keeping her awake. So considering that maybe I should make her a small shelter outside and monitor the temperature, it sometimes gets 5 degrees low so I'll bring her in at those times.

No worries at all about whitei, I believe it's the name of the subspecies if I didn't spell it wrong.

And thank you again, no questions for now

 

[Silfalion]

It is one of the North African subspecies for sure. It is very hard to differentiate tortoises from Libya all the way to Morocco visually, so I would not be certain it is T.g.whitei without DNA testing being done.

Care is not grossly different than for other Greek tortoises, but there is debate about how much cold these tolerate, etc, and how to keep them in winter.

Hm I see, so monitoring it is then. I'll let her outside and get her in when it's too cold. Would that be OK? I mean is there a danger in disturbing her sleep?

Thank you for the confirmation about its species too.

 

[TeamZissou]

Testudo graeca whitei is no longer a recognized subspecies, they are now grouped in with Testudo graeca graeca.

Recognizing the Greek Tortoises

The SubspeciesAs already mentioned in other articles, there are more than ten recognizable Greek tortoise “types” in nature and in collections, even in the USA. Some, including myself, see the current taxonomic findings as insufficient. An up-to-date and in-depth research project concerning this...

www.gardenstatetortoise.com

Where did you get this tortoise? If it is from the wild near Chlef or along the northern Algerian coast, it's a probably safe to say it's a Testudo graeca graeca based on the range map:

 

[turtlesteve]

Testudo graeca whitei is no longer a recognized subspecies, they are now grouped in with Testudo graeca graeca.

This statement is not correct. T.g.whitei is currently recognized/ approved after being unrecognized for a while. This happened because T.g.graeca was reassigned and is now the valid name for tortoises previously called T.g.soussensis which is now an invalid name. Oddly, when graeca was fixed / reassigned, the name T.g.mauritanica was passed over in favor of whitei, seemingly against proper naming protocols, but perhaps there was a reason for this that I am not aware of (the decision was not explained).

I would not recommend using Leone’s site as a reference for taxonomy.

It’s all a mess and I won’t be surprised if it changes again.

 

[Silfalion]

Testudo graeca whitei is no longer a recognized subspecies, they are now grouped in with Testudo graeca graeca.

Recognizing the Greek Tortoises

The SubspeciesAs already mentioned in other articles, there are more than ten recognizable Greek tortoise “types” in nature and in collections, even in the USA. Some, including myself, see the current taxonomic findings as insufficient. An up-to-date and in-depth research project concerning this...

www.gardenstatetortoise.com

Where did you get this tortoise? If it is from the wild near Chlef or along the northern Algerian coast, it's a probably safe to say it's a Testudo graeca graeca based on the range map:

View attachment 362589

Hey, It's indeed from Algeria. Funny story, she appeared the next day of a very windy day, so we assume the wind had a role in that. Just an anecdote but the location is spot on, could you share the link to the range map, pls? It looks cool

 

[TeamZissou]

This statement is not correct. T.g.whitei is currently recognized/ approved after being unrecognized for a while. This happened because T.g.graeca was reassigned and is now the valid name for tortoises previously called T.g.soussensis which is now an invalid name. Oddly, when graeca was fixed / reassigned, the name T.g.mauritanica was passed over in favor of whitei, seemingly against proper naming protocols, but perhaps there was a reason for this that I am not aware of (the decision was not explained).

I would not recommend using Leone’s site as a reference for taxonomy.

It’s all a mess and I won’t be surprised if it changes again.

Thanks, I wasn't aware. The stuff on Leone's site seemed to agree with my Turtle Taxonomy Working Group book (8th edition, 2018), but I now see that they released an 8th edition two years ago, available here:

https://iucn-tftsg.org/wp-content/uploads/crm.8.checklist.atlas_.v9.2021.e3.pdf

 

[tortoise Resort]

إنها واحدة من سلالات شمال إفريقيا بالتأكيد. من الصعب للغاية التمييز بين السلاحف الليبية والسلاحف الليبية على طول الطريق إلى المغرب بصريًا، لذلك لن أكون متأكدًا من أنها تجوايتى دون إجراء اختبار الحمض النووي.

لا تختلف الرعاية بشكل كبير عن السلاحف اليونانية الأخرى، ولكن هناك جدل حول مقدار البرد الذي تتحمله هذه السلاحف، وما إلى ذلك، وكيفية الاحتفاظ بها في الشتاء.

It is one of the North African subspecies for sure. It is very hard to differentiate tortoises from Libya all the way to Morocco visually, so I would not be certain it is T.g.whitei without DNA testing being done.

Care is not grossly different than for other Greek tortoises, but there is debate about how much cold these tolerate, etc, and how to keep them in winter.

Is souss valley tortoise!!

 

[HermanniChris]

The western clade of the Testudo graeca species complex has gone through a mind boggling amount of reclassification etc. My website was agreeable with the working group’s release at the time, hence the photos I provided them with, which represented various graeca in that edition. The site is going through an update now to be more current, it’s just taking time. Without DNA, many of the western types cannot be visually identified easily. In particular, younger animals are even more difficult to properly differentiate. T. g. whitei is now valid again but represents a different tortoise than what was initially depicted by Andy Highfield. Andy and I just had a conservation about this yesterday. I will share some detailed diagrams that align with current taxonomy for T. graeca in the coming months. If any of you are in the UK, I’ll be giving the keynote at the European Turtle Alliance symposium May 18-19 which will cover quite a bit on Testudo, including the T. graeca complex. It will also be recorded so may be able to be shared here.