What size closed chambers can i get by with?

[NewTortEnthusiast]

Hello all, I am currently in the middle of presenting design ideas to my father so in the next few days we will begin construction of closed chambers for my two 2 year old sulcata tortoises. I have asked what should I do about their pyramiding before and many of you have advised me to get closed chambers for them, to maintain high humidity to help with their pyramiding and proper shell growth. Also, many of you have told me I should keep them separated, since they will be aggressive towards each other and will eventually grow close to the size they should be at 2 years old.

I have the money. over $400 to build the separate closed chambers, but my problem is their overall size. I by no means have space issues. My house is very large indoors and several rooms completely empty. My only problem is convincing my parents that I need to build 2 rather large "boxes" to keep them in to improve their health and growth. Ive heard stuff about 4ft by 8ft and slightly smaller dimensions. But I don't know how I could ever convince my parents that each should be that big. I've seen other threads about using huge plastic containers for christmas tree storage and other things like that.

I would really like ideas in regards to dimensions. My parents might better except the idea of the enclosures if they were square instead of rectangular, if I were to do it as more of a square what dimensions should it be?

 

[TechnoCheese]

Explain to them that boxes of that size will last YEARS, and until theyre big enough to go outside full time (8-11 inches). Instead of constantly building bigger and bigger enclosures, you can just build one

 

[TechnoCheese]

Also, square dimensions would probably be about 5.5 feet by 5.5 feet.

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

Explain to then that boxes of that size will last YEARS, and until theyre big enough to go outside full time (8-11 inches). Instead of constantly building bigger and bigger enclosures, you can just build one

I'm hoping they will understand that, but the problem is I would need two closed chambers. Some of you have told me that my two sulcatas are already showing serious signs of aggression towards each other, and it would only get worse once they finally start really growing again. The idea of having a (if i put the enclosures side by side) 8ft x 8ft "box thing" or a 5.5 ft x 11ft "box thing" is gonna be really hard. They are fully supportive of me taking these huge steps for Steve and George's health, and will probably end up doing it anyway, its just me telling them the dimensions they will say it doesn't have to be that big.

I am going to tell them right now.

 

[TechnoCheese]

You can also do double decker
Two Story Insulated Tortoise Town-home
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Two-Story-Insulated-Tortoise-Town-home.163540/

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

My parents said no. Me bringing this up to them has now caused them great stress and they are angry at me because (of course I would be upset and sad) I'm frustrated. I told them who you all are and what TortoiseForum is all about and how there is legitimate invaluable information and opinons from all of you, and they don't trust anything you all are saying. They strongly believe they do not need such a large enclosure, let alone 2 of them. They are angry at me because they assumed I would keep them outside, and not inside to have to spend even more money. They assumed I needed $400 or so to get a cheap enclosure and fill it up with all kinds of stuff that the tortoises would like ("real high quality pet shop stuff"), not $400 for basically the entire enclosures and a few things I would have to put in it.

They are insisting I just buy 2 really big christmas tree storage containers meanwhile... meanwhile might be a really long time.

I'm really stuck and feeling hopeless.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Try telling them(or showing them this message) that you can get everything you need for a tortoise for much, much cheaper at a hardware store, because the stuff at the pet store shouldn’t be used. You can get a 3.3 cubic foot bag of peat moss from Home Depot for 11 dollars. I would get that, and a 4 dollar, 2 cubic foot bag of cypress mulch, also from the hardware store. That should give you a good 3-4 inches of substrate for 15 dollars each enclosure. Then, go up to dollar tree, and buy the two biggest flower pots you can find. Then, bury them half way in the substrate so that you get something like this-
I would use two for each enclosure. That’s 19 dollars you’ve spent in total. Then, buy two large terra cotta saucers for water. I would guess that one of a large size is 9-10 dollars, I’ll say ten for the benefit of the doubt. That’s 20 dollars, 39 dollars in total. For a humid hide, I found a 1 dollar tub at Walmart that you could easily flip upside down, cut an entry hole, and wet the substrate under it a lot. That’s 40 dollars for the entire set up.

For thermometers and Hygrometers, get the CHEAPEST temp gun you can find, which will usually be 15-20 dollars. I’ll say 20 to give the benefit of the doubt. That’s 60 on everything, and I would get two digital hydrometer also from Home Depot, usually 4 dollars. 68 dollars for EVERYTHING you need for TWO set ups, except lighting.

For lighting, buy two 75 watt Phillips flood bulbs, I THINK it’s 2-4 dollars each, or you can buy a pack for 20 or so dollars. Let’s do 4 dollars each light for the benefit of the doubt. Then, get four ceramic topped light fixtures, also from Home Depot. I think they’re 8 dollars each or so. We’re at 108 dollars for the set up of both.
Get two ceramic heat emitters off of Amazon, 10 dollars or less if you get the right brand. I would get a 100-150 watt.

That is 128 dollars for the set up of BOTH enclosures, less if you already have some of the stuff, or find deals.

I’ll create another comment of the estimated price of two closed chambers in a second.

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

Try telling them(or showing them this message) that you can get everything you need for a tortoise for much, much cheaper at a hardware store, because the stuff at the pet store shouldn’t be used. You can get a 3.3 cubic foot bag of peat moss View attachment 245867from Home Depot for 11 dollars. I would get that, and a 4 dollar, 2 cubic foot bag of cypress mulch, also from the hardware store. That should give you a good 3-4 inches of substrate for 15 dollars each enclosure. Then, go up to dollar tree, and buy the two biggest flower pots you can find. Then, bury them half way in the substrate so that you get something like this-
View attachment 245863 I would use two for each enclosure. That’s 19 dollars you’ve spent in total. Then, buy two large terra cotta saucers for water.View attachment 245866 I would guess that one of a large size is 9-10 dollars, I’ll say ten for the benefit of the doubt. That’s 20 dollars, 39 dollars in total. For a humid hide, I found a 1 dollar tub at Walmart that you could easily flip upside down, cut an entry hole, and wet the substrate under it a lot. That’s 40 dollars for the entire set up.

For thermometers and Hygrometers, get the CHEAPEST temp gun you can find, View attachment 245864which will usually be 15-20 dollars. I’ll say 20 to give the benefit of the doubt. That’s 60 on everything, and I would get two digital hydrometer also from Home Depot, usually 4 dollarsView attachment 245865. 68 dollars for EVERYTHING you need for TWO set ups, except lighting.

For lighting, buy two 75 watt Phillips flood bulbs, I THINK it’s 2-4 dollars each, or you can buy a pack for 20 or so dollars. Let’s do 4 dollars each light for the benefit of the doubt. Then, get four ceramic topped light fixtures, also from Home Depot. I think they’re 8 dollars each or so. We’re at 108 dollars for the set up of both.
Get two ceramic heat emitters off of Amazon, 10 dollars or less if you get the right brand. I would get a 100-150 watt.

That is 128 dollars for the set up of BOTH enclosures, less if you already have some of the stuff, or find deals.

I’ll create another comment of the estimated price of two closed chambers in a second.

Thank you so much for your help TechnoCheese, I am still trying to convince them that my tortoises need these listed items in order to get them back on track health wise. I think my mother is starting to agree. I hope you can offer more help in a way that will convince my parents I need this. The money is not really an issue, its just they dont believe any of this is necessary.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Thank you so much for your help TechnoCheese, I am still trying to convince them that my tortoises need these listed items in order to get them back on track health wise. I think my mother is starting to agree. I hope you can offer more help in a way that will convince my parents I need this. The money is not really an issue, its just they dont believe any of this is necessary.

I’m very glad I’m helping! I’m still gonna make a comment about the price of a closed chamber, just so I can help other people that stumble across this thread, but next I’ll explain why it’s necessary

You could also hand over the computer/other device, and let them talk to us directly?

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

I’m very glad I’m helping! I’m still gonna make a comment about the price of a closed chamber, just so I can help other people that stumble across this thread, but next I’ll explain why it’s necessary

You could also hand over the computer/other device, and let them talk to us directly?

I could try letting you guys chat with my older brother, he is the only person who could probably convince them that your information is important and that they need this. My parents themselves are not that good with computers, I'd of course be there with them and reply back while they read replies for themselves. I'll try something like this tomorrow hopefully.

 

[TechnoCheese]

I was about to spend about an hour making a diagram in a 3D modeling program, but then I found this video explaining basically the exact same thing.

You just want to make an 8x4 frame with 16 inch sides, attach ply wood/the acrylic you want to use, water proof it, and you’re done. I would HIGHLY recommend attaching wheels to the bottom

you’ll need 3 of these for each enclosure, you’ll need APPROXIMATELY 9 of these(likely much less, but I can’t math right now) for each enclosure, and only one of these, but have it cut into four 12x36 inch strips, that way you can do a sliding door on each. The acrylic would start about 6 inches in from either side.

Here’s a little(to scale)drawing-
What I forgot to mention is that you’ll also need a fluorescent uvb (zoomed reptisun 10.0 is good, get better deals online), probably 3-4 feet long. Then, just get fittings for the end and mount them to the side. However, you also WONT need 20 dollars worth of fixtures for the heating elements, because you can mount them inside the enclosure. Just get fittings for the end.

You would also need a track for the sliding doors.

In addition to this, you would also need to waterproof it. I would get someone else’s advice for that.

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

I am showing the video and your change notes to my father now. He seems more interested now. He said he would have to sleep on it, whether or not we will build anything or I have to do it myself or parents making me buy some big thing to put them in. I'm hoping we build something like that. Thank you again TechnoCheese.

 

[Diamond]

This could be a family project you all could work on for family time and for the good of your tortoises. I'm proud of you wanting to provide proper care for these torts. Sounds like your parents raised a caring person.

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

This could be a family project you all could work on for family time and for the good of your tortoises. I'm proud of you wanting to provide proper care for these torts. Sounds like your parents raised a caring person.

I have fallen in love with Steve and George (hoping are both males, otherwise in later years I will change name accordingly). I am almost an adult and wish to pursue a career possibly relating to reptiles or specifically tortoises. I have loved tortoises my whole life and now I have two of my favorite kind, but they need serious help in order to get their pyramiding in check and to encourage proper growth. I don't want Steve and George to grow up to be way smaller and more pyramided than what should be allowed, I want them to have a great life. My property's size is more than enough to accomodate them years and even decades from now, but I want them to look and feel their best when that time comes.

I hope my parents let me build them good sized enclosed chambers.

 

[Yvonne G]

My parents said no. Me bringing this up to them has now caused them great stress and they are angry at me because (of course I would be upset and sad) I'm frustrated. I told them who you all are and what TortoiseForum is all about and how there is legitimate invaluable information and opinons from all of you, and they don't trust anything you all are saying. They strongly believe they do not need such a large enclosure, let alone 2 of them. They are angry at me because they assumed I would keep them outside, and not inside to have to spend even more money. They assumed I needed $400 or so to get a cheap enclosure and fill it up with all kinds of stuff that the tortoises would like ("real high quality pet shop stuff"), not $400 for basically the entire enclosures and a few things I would have to put in it.

They are insisting I just buy 2 really big christmas tree storage containers meanwhile... meanwhile might be a really long time.

I'm really stuck and feeling hopeless.

The Christmas tree storage bins are fine! I use them and love them. You can figure out a way to have the lid on with holes cut out for the lights. Your sulcatas should be able to stay each in their own bin for a year, maybe even longer. Then, when they outgrow the bins, they can move outside.

 

[NewTortEnthusiast]

Update on the closed chambers. My parents are taking into consideration all the information all you wonderful people have provided me. In a few months I will have my closed chambers how I'd like them. As for now, I purchased another large tub to keep george in, so they are now separated, as well as some sphagnum peet moss to mix in and create a way better substrate. They have more room since they are separated and can grow without competition. I am still pressuring my parents to allow me to begin construction of the chambers sooner than a few months.

Along with bettering their diet, Steve and especially George love eating mulberry leaves. I have offered them other good food for them listed in the forums; this is the first food they are taking a liking too.

3 soaks every day for roughly 30 minutes each. 2 hours minimun of being outside and foraging.

All things said, I will have them and am waiting. Here are some pictures of the chambers I got currently (still small).

 

[daniellenc]

Now all you need is to screw the UV tube into the lid and cut a whole in the lid for heat!! Nice job!!

 

[daniellenc]

 

[Cooper horn]

Cool

 

[TriciaStringer]

I remember you mentioning that money isn't a problem. If your parents will allow it, I recommend you get AP cages. It will save you so much time, mess, and frustration from building them. They will not rot. They have a great resale value too when your tortoises are outside full time and no longer need them, sell them. I know members on here would probably buy them from you.
https://apcages.com
My husband and I couldn't purchase one, plus our Sulcata was already almost 6" when we got her so I knew she wouldn't need to be inside much longer. Just my thoughts.