Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's Discussion thread

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Yellow Turtle

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

GBtortoises said:
That's not a Hermann's. It's a Marginated tortoise, Testudo marginata

I see, I should ask the seller to learn from you first before selling it as a hermann :D

Thanks a lot!!
 

kelberry

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Hello Chris, I can not see your diagrams on my computer, but I am trying to figure out which sub-species of Heramman's I have. I am wondering if you can help so that I can create specific educational materials for this tortois? I am also wondering if you know what their status is in their native range and if they are facing any environmental threats?
 

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HermanniChris

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

It's definitely not a Western Hermann's, but I would need a clear plastron shot to know if it's an Eastern or a Dalmatian.
 

kelberry

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Thank you. I am starting to feel confused about a bunch of them. I am supposed to have 2 Russians, 2 Greeks and 1 Hermann's - but the shell of one of the "Greeks" does not match the other. Also, the 2 Russians look very simliar to the one that is "Greek". I will attach a picture and see if I can get your opinion.
I have labelled the tortoises 1-5 to make it easier to get them sorted out. The lady who owned them may also know more.
 

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Yvonne G

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

I think that 1,2 and 5 are steppe tortoises (Russians). And 3 looks very thin.
 

kelberry

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

emysemys said:
I think that 1,2 and 5 are steppe tortoises (Russians). And 3 looks very thin.

What do you suggest as a diet supplement? They are currently eating fresh greens and I don't see how that will ever beef them up. If there are certain fruits and vegetables that are ideal I would like to offer them. Do you think that #4 is a Greek?
 

Yvonne G

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Since this is Hermann Chris's I.D. thread, you should be asking your questions on your own thread, not here. I'll answer on the other thread you made.
 

kelberry

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

emysemys said:
Since this is Hermann Chris's I.D. thread, you should be asking your questions on your own thread, not here. I'll answer on the other thread you made.

Thanks. I was having a bit of trouble finding my way around on the forum.
 

GBtortoises

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

kelberry said:
Thank you. I am starting to feel confused about a bunch of them. I am supposed to have 2 Russians, 2 Greeks and 1 Hermann's - but the shell of one of the "Greeks" does not match the other. Also, the 2 Russians look very simliar to the one that is "Greek". I will attach a picture and see if I can get your opinion.
I have labelled the tortoises 1-5 to make it easier to get them sorted out. The lady who owned them may also know more.

1 & 2-Russians (Steppe) tortoises, Testudo horsfieldi
3-Hermann's, looks like an Eastern, Testudo hermanni boettgeri
4-Ibera Greek, Testudo (gracea) ibera
5-Not sure based on photo, looks like a Middle Eastern Greek subspecies, Testudo gracea ssp.

A better photo of #5 would tell for certain.
 

Tartaruga!

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Do u know if mine is eastern or western plz...?



image-3370863367.png



image-2488862575.png



image-2954147587.png



image-4243459397.png
 

Tartaruga!

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Hiya, thanks for your reply :D
I'm well chuft 1 of my mysterys is solved ;)

Wow!! You really know your tortoises!!... Just curious if u can tell how old he/she is and most likely gender he/she is?

Thanks again :D
 

GBtortoises

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Based on the photos maybe a year and half to two old. It's difficult to tell exactly because it does appear that there is a little bit of accelerated growth. Gender is possibly female, but it's a bit too young to say for certain.
 

Tartaruga!

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Ok thanks :) ... The cert10 I got says birth 14th sept 2010, which would make 2 in a few days. I was a bit worried I might have been conned with a fake cert cos I was told Tarty was a bit small. Just 30g when I brought him/her home.
What does it mean when u say 'accelerated growth' ? ... Is that bad? If so, could u tell me how I can rectify it plz. I'm having growth worries at the mo after measuring tarty and getting a 3" reading, looking at the Jackson ratio 3" should weigh 150g ... Double little Tarty :( ... But he/she is steadily gaining a cpl g's each wk ... Which I'm not sure is enough or too much or what. :/

Sorry for being a pain :/
 

GBtortoises

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

The growth that I can see in the photo is not smooth, the carapace shows some signs of slightly raised scutes, but not really pyramiding. The ridges on the plastron scutes are raised. But, if the tortoise is about 2 years old at 3" that's about average. How well hydrated is the tortoise kept?
 

Tartaruga!

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

I was bathing every other day for approx 20-30 mins at a time. Up til a few wks ago. Then a vet told my sister (who has a horsefield) that she should reduce bathing to once a wk'ish cos clear wee was a sign of too much water, over bathing, so I reduced too. Then I learnt on this forum that clear wee was good and I couldn't really 'over bathe' ... That was fri/sat so I bathed tarty sat, missed today (sun) and will bathe tomorrow (mon) and continue every other day now.
Water is always available in a dish... But I've not been spraying the substrate as didn't know I should, but will do a light misting in the morning.
 

jlb1077

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

How big do the Eastern Hermanns Tortoise - T. h. Boettgeri males get?

HermanniChris said:
I made these diagrams a while ago using my own animals so here they are again for anyone who is confused when it comes to differentiating Hermann's tortoises.

TESTUDO HERMANNI BOETTGERI VS. TESTUDO HERMANNI HERMANNI

Many people find it quite difficult to differentiate the eastern and western subspecies of the Hermanns tortoise (Testudo hermanni). For years it was believed that the Western race (Testudo hermanni hermanni) was separated from the Eastern race (Testudo hermanni boettgeri) by characteristics like a divided suprecaudal shield or the jet black bands on the plastron. While these features can help, it is by no means limited to this as both subspecies can exhibit them. Today all over the world "breeders" and dealers offer hermanns tortoises for sale. Many are captive bred babies while others are imported wild caught animals which are loaded with parasites. Lately individuals offer "western hermanns tortoises" for sale and more than 9 times out 10 they are not the real thing. In the following diagrams I illustrate through photos of my own tortoises how to properly tell the difference between the 2 subspecies. Just because your tortoise has a lot of black on the plastron does not mean it's a western hermanns tortoise!!

Enjoy everyone!
Sincerely,
Chris Leone

[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th5.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th2.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th3.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th4.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th10.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th7.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th8.jpg[/img]
[img=640x480]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/th12.jpg[/img]
 

jlb1077

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RE: Western Hermann's vs. Eastern Hermann's

Ok. Thanks


GBtortoises said:
Male Easterns can range in adult size from about 5.75-7.00". Most average around 6-6.5".
 
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