Well, well, well, what did we find here then ?

[Anyfoot]

The first year I found the first one was all alone, then the same year I found three from one clutch (all hiding at the same spot) as they all hatched at the same time. Last year I found two + two, and one single one, and this year I would bet that even if I found one dark all alone first and then the slightly brighter one, the first dark one this year belonged to the same clutch I found when emptying the enclosure with two more dark ones. So all in all my best guess is that these 13 hatchlings (I've checked my logbook now) comes from 7 different clutches. And during the three years these three females in this group has laid 25 clutches in total (those found included). All with the same male but three different females.

Ok. So 25 clutches all in all and 7 of these clutches were of the darker type. It sounds logical that your male and one of the females produce the darker neonates as cdmay and n2torts suggested.
The only thing is, its a mighty coincidence that all the clutches left in the ground ended up the darker type and from one female.
Also do you know if you have definitely incubated eggs from all 3 females artificially. All your artificial eggs were of the brighter colours, yes.
It's very interesting either way.

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Interesting neonates on a couple of levels. First, one of them possesses a nuchal scute--see the last image of the red neonate. The genus Chelonoidis isn't supposed to have nuchal scutes, although they have been recorded before from this population or type of red foot.
Second reason is the super dark hatchlings. I've hatched a few like that over the years but they were random and not predictable. But if you're getting repeated clutches from the same parents that produce the dark hatchlings (in the same clutch that produces the normal red ones), then I'd say you have something cool going on there.

Thanks, yes I noticed this, and this is actually the first one I've ever had with a nuchal scute on the carapace. I've had a couple of hatclings with split scutes during the years, and also two hatchlings with split scutes on their plastron.

As they are so very different from the ones that hatch in the incubator, we've discussed this "phenomena" earlier, but now I have started to doubt that it's just coincident and there must be another explanation ?

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Ok. So 25 clutches all in all and 7 of these clutches were of the darker type. It sounds logical that your male and one of the females produce the darker neonates as cdmay and n2torts suggested.
The only thing is, its a mighty coincidence that all the clutches left in the ground ended up the darker type and from one female.
Also do you know if you have definitely incubated eggs from all 3 females artificially. All your artificial eggs were of the brighter colours, yes.
It's very interesting either way.

Oh yes, I am sure that I've incubated eggs from all of them, since this is the most productive of my two groups

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Same here. Neonates that I've found in my yard have mostly been rather dull colored. But this fits nicely into a thought that lower temperatures produce smaller, weaker and duller colored neonates. Eggs incubated in the ground here in the U.S.-- where the temperatures are often lower than what our animals would experience where they come from, would understandably produce such hatchlings.

I would think that this is one of the parameters here, lower temperature, as the heat comes from the enclosure underneath this one ? And I would agree to that these hatchlings are a bit smaller and frail that the ones I hatch in the incubator. But my reflection to this has been that it takes an effort for them to first hatch naturally, then dig themselves up and on top of this survive for a while before I find them ? As they are so dark, I can assure you that they are not very easy to find ! All of them has barely had any yolk sac left when found, and they usually are very "dry" and tender. They drink between 2-3 grams during the first encounter with fresh water ! The smallest one weighted 23 grams, and hatchlings from the incubator usually weigh over 30 grams.

 

[Anyfoot]

I would think that this is one of the parameters here, lower temperature, as the heat comes from the enclosure underneath this one ? And I would agree to that these hatchlings are a bit smaller and frail that the ones I hatch in the incubator. But my reflection to this has been that it takes an effort for them to first hatch naturally, then dig themselves up and on top of this survive for a while before I find them ? As they are so dark, I can assure you that they are not very easy to find ! All of them has barely had any yolk sac left when found, and they usually are very "dry" and tender. They drink between 2-3 grams during the first encounter with fresh water ! The smallest one weighted 23 grams, and hatchlings from the incubator usually weigh over 30 grams.

Could you incubate a clutch fully burried in Pete moss under controlled temperatures in your incubator?

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Could you incubate a clutch fully burried in Pete moss under controlled temperatures in your incubator?

Interesting idea, and doable...

 

[AnimalLady]

This is amazing! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Ok folks, here is the deal...

This evening one of my smaller females layed two beatutiful eggs, so I picked them up without cleaning or anything and just put them into the same substrate as in the enclosure she layed them in. Then just put the container into the incubator. So now the experiment has started, fingers crossed and we will see the result in the middle of the summer here in Sweden around july

 

[Anyfoot]

Ok folks, here is the deal...

This evening one of my smaller females layed two beatutiful eggs, so I picked them up without cleaning or anything and just put them into the same substrate as in the enclosure she layed them in. Then just put the container into the incubator. So now the experiment has started, fingers crossed and we will see the result in the middle of the summer here in Sweden around july

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Nice one. I was thinking about this yesterday.