Weight gain and the "dreaded " pyramiding!

[kingskettle]

My two male 6 year old Leos have been with me a year now, The larger one has gone from 522gms to 2130gms in that time while the smaller one has gone from 473gms to 1305gms. Both were quite smooth when I bought them. Both have the same living conditions and eat the same food but the larger of the two is getting to be quite pyramided. They sleep on coir which is decreasing and as I can't source any more here in southern Spain, I am going to bed them on dirt from the garden. They are under a CE at night now as it is cooler now but still go outside for most of the day on a tortoise lawn. They graze the grass and weeds from that and I also feed them weeds,hibiscus,petunia,tradescantia. Is there anything I can do to prevent the pyramiding from worsening! Are they getting too much food?

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This is another view of the Leo with pyramiding. The second photo on the above post is of the smooth Leo.


www.cactusinspain.com

 

[Neal]

Doesn't look all too bad.

What is the humidity like? Do you have a water dish in with them? Do they drink often?

 

[wellington]

Same as Neal asked. Humidity? They may also be growing too fast. Some say that does also play a part in pyramiding.

 

[kingskettle]

Doesn't look all too bad.

What is the humidity like? Do you have a water dish in with them? Do they drink often?

The coco coir in their hide is dampish and in the enclosure they spend the night in there are two soak trays with water in which I generally leave there all night. They have a warm soak morning and night and usually drink both times

 

[Tom]

Growth in the wrong conditions is what causes pyramiding. What you can do is try to provide the right conditions. A closed chamber will work wonders for you.

 

[kingskettle]

Growth in the wrong conditions is what causes pyramiding. What you can do is try to provide the right conditions. A closed chamber will work wonders for you.

So should I make their hide from some sort of plastic box, is that what you mean?

 

[Tom]

A humid hide box is a good start, but I mean to make their ENTIRE enclosure a closed chamber. In an open topped enclosure all your beneficial heat and humidity just rise up and out into the room. Here is what I mean:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-32333.html#axzz2ARq3m7Bd

 

[DesertGrandma]

But, wait.....these are 6 YEAR olds. I thought they didn't pyramid after the first year or two????

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It would be hard to keep these in an enclosure all the time. They should be out roaming around shouldn't they???

 

[Tom]

But, wait.....these are 6 YEAR olds. I thought they didn't pyramid after the first year or two????

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It would be hard to keep these in an enclosure all the time. They should be out roaming around shouldn't they???

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Its not age. Its size. My sulcatas in their perfect conditions with their excellent diets and hydration routine DO get big enough to live outside in their first year or two. These leopards were only around 500 grams at five years old. That is tiny. My leopards were hitting 500 at nine months, and others got there even sooner. The rule of thumb with sulcatas is that once they are 6-8" long, and smooth, you are out if the woods. I don't know if there is such a cut off point with leopards. There doesn't seem to be a "safe" size for redfoots. Maybe leopards are this way too.

Leaving them in perfect conditions for years won't hurt anything. Pulling them out too soon, whenever "too soon" is, can cause damage. The OP has obviously run into this issue.

 

[Neal]

But, wait.....these are 6 YEAR olds. I thought they didn't pyramid after the first year or two????

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It would be hard to keep these in an enclosure all the time. They should be out roaming around shouldn't they???

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They will continue to pyramid if their environment and husbandry isn't adequate for likely as long as it remains in those conditions. There really isn't a "cut off" date. I've seen plenty of examples of adult size tortoises with new pyramided growth.

I agree that tortoises this size should be maintained outdoors as much as possible. If you look at the scutes of your pyramided tortoise, the entire scute is raised, indicating that it has been pyramiding its whole life. At this point, my opinion is the best way to encourage smoother growth is to keep the tortoise well hydrated and offer plenty of outdoor exercise.

 

[kingskettle]

But, wait.....these are 6 YEAR olds. I thought they didn't pyramid after the first year or two????

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It would be hard to keep these in an enclosure all the time. They should be out roaming around shouldn't they???

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Yeah, well these two are out roaming all day but I guess I could enclose their night time hide. However, as desert grandma says-----I thought pyramiding didn't happen after the first couple of years. However, it has so I guess I'll try and cover my guys in at night. They go into their hide and stay there til next morning so it can't be hard to enclose that space

 

[Neal]

However, as desert grandma says-----I thought pyramiding didn't happen after the first couple of years.

As stated above, pyramiding will happen for as long as the tortoise is in sub par conditions. You could theoretically have a ten year old tortoise with pyramiding still occurring.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Geeesh...learn something new every day