VitaShell...i'm saying...YES

[loogielv]

Look, before you flame me, I've been doing research on it and I have a pretty good understanding of how it works and why people dont like it.

I would also like to say, I do not care about vitashell to make my tort's shell "pretty". I couldn't care less actually. I am interested in the repairing aspects of it. So if your tort's shell is perfect, dont use stuff just to make it shinier. it's just not worth it.

Let me debate w/ myself. I like to do that. I do alot to myself. I like that too. I used to be a car salesman, and we had a term for people who said no. they didn't say no, they just had an objection. You had to overcome that objection. "i can't afford it" "what if i can get it into your monthly budget?" etc.

You will quickly see that one thing overcomes almost all objections. ALMOST.

Objection: A shell needs to breath. The lotion can impede the pores, blocking UV rays or even blocking air.
Overcoming the objection: A thorough cleaning of the shell before AND after the vitashell application. This is crucial anyway. Anyone just rubbing anything on a turtle and leaving it is insane anyway. The easiest way is to clean the shell, dry it off, apply the vita shell and let it dry for several minutes. I mean DRY, but not longer than 10 minutes. Then, you rinse the vitashell off really well, cleaning w/ a rag as you go. I usually give the tort a 20 min bath, do the vitashell thing, change the water while its drying, then the tort gets another bath in warm water. The reason for letting the vita shell is two fold 1) to fully condition the shell and 2) it's easier to rinse off when it's dry.

Objection: Bacteria can get caught under the lotion in the creases and grooves. If there's shell damage you could really be asking for trouble if its get stuck in a crack.
Overcoming the objection: Again, a good thorough cleaning, complete with rubbing it dry with a rag and then another bath AFTER rinsing the vita shell clean is super important. Trying to rinse the vitashell wet makes it tremendously harder, so let it dry. I also use a toothbrush to apply the vitashell and then to help rinse between the cracks.

Objection: If it's not found in the wild...
Overcoming the objection: You dont find IVs in the wild or vets or dewormers either. Torts dont take baths every other day in the wild either. Science takes this hobby to new heights. I am in NO WAY saying vitashell is a science, nor am I comparing it to veterinary medicine. I am comparing the fact that neither is found in the wild. If your tort's shell is in perfect condition, or in terrible condition, i wouldn't use vitashell. Either no need, or you need medicine (also is not found in the wild..but shell rot certainly is found in the wild) but if its like my tort where there was once shell rot and possibly a scuffle with a dog and exposed white spots and dry cracks and was without uv for at least a year, if not 3, then yah, I'd say conditioning the shell isn't a terrible idea. (read my poor guy's story at http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-5878.html LOTS of pics)

Objection: (this is actually a good one) You need soap to remove oils and wax totally.
Overcoming the objection: Some of the ingredients listed on the product are indeed oils (sunflower, soybean and palm oils, as well as "emulsifying wax nf") as well as the usual other stuff in lotions that makes it chemically..lotion. However with a good scrubbing, a good rubbing a good drying, and 2 good washings, there's no reason you can't get almost everything off that wasn't absorbed. Ooh, our next point, almost same as the first...

Objection: "Absorbed you say Loogie? well there's the problem. it's been absorbed, its now in the shell, in the pores, blocking stuff and moisturizing. It's blasphemy!"
Overcoming the objection: Look, you're right, there is going to be some left on the shell. It's inevitable. And if you rubbed majority of it off, the only parts that could probably be left would be the insides of cracks, pores, separations etc. (the use of the rag will minimize this even further) but that's doesn't mean its not good for the shell. Torts get covered in dirt too. YOu think dirt is good for a shell or wont clog pores? What about mud? Hell, torts bury themselves in dirt for weeks on end! Even damp and humid dirt.
The use of this stuff sparingly, based on the condition of the shell would be priority number 1. Use it too much and you'll be sorry. Use ANYTHING too much and you'll be sorry. you know that awesome diet you spent months perfecting and your tort LOVES? use only that and you'll be sorry. variety!
You know that substrate that was nice and clean 3 months ago? You better change it, or you'll be sorry. Clean!
You know that porn video you downloaded and can't stop watching? ok bad example. Porn!

edit: sorry, got too excited and click "post". my point being is there is IMO absolute benefits to using vitashell (again, IMO) but everyday, or even every other day is or anything more than once a week is too much. My tort JUST came to me and i'm deeply concerned with this shell. After having him looked at, all of the rot is old and most likely caused by dog bites or similar. I want to make sure he's on the way to any recovery if there's a need. He's gotten 3 treatments in just over a week, and starting next week, he'll be down to 1 a week.

Also, my personality is based of humor. I love to laugh and I enjoy making jokes..apparently as the wrong times..according to my wife. There was some "tongue-in-cheek" in this post and probably 99% of my future posts too. I dont mean to offend, I dont take life too seriously, unless we're talking life, seriously.

I enjoy a good debate so please, express your opinions and believe me, I pride myself on being open minded. I will listen and I can be swayed if points are valid. True story: I get bored and debate with myself sometimes to see if I could prove both sides, and, I swear this on my children, I actually debated abortion with myself and I ended up switching my own view. I swear that is true!

 

[Millerlite]

some people use vitashell some people dont, we are a forum that gives out help, we cant force everyone to take the advice and listen. ITs like UVB or any other debate.. people believe what they believe and do what they want to do, cant control everyone.

 

[Yvonne G]

The part of your argument about the "pores": since there are no pores on a tortoise's shell, this is a non-argument. The reason you don't want to have a film of any kind of substance on your tortoise's shell is because the shell is 90% of his body, and if dirt and oils stick to the shell it might cause overheating. You can paint your toenails and you can paint your tortoise's toenails...but you CAN'T paint 90% of his body. Since you feel that you are removing most of the product, then that's a non-issue too. However, the only place on the shell that any kind of product would make any difference is on the new growth in between the scutes. This is the only place where anything can be absorbed and softened. Once that hardens, it's hard and non-absorptive.

Yvonne

 

[TKCARDANDCOIN]

I have used vitashell a few times over the years on a number of my torts.Not just on the shell but sometimes on the skin.It can do wonders for dry skin.As for the shell I have used it a few times during a soak when the shell was a little dull.I would put a little dab on an old toothbrush(soft bristle) and gently scrub the shell.After a few minutes I would wipe it away with a warm wash cloth and the shells never looked better.It is a great product if used sparingly to revitalize a dry shell or dry skin.I guess it is up to the individual but I see no harm.Oh well, to each his own.tom.

 

[tortelini]

I am always up for a good debate....(IF it was me, I would take emysemy's advise without question) As for my opinion, I think that sometimes we buy products that say they are supposed to do us good and trust that these "experts or companies" have our well being in mind when in fact it's just to make money. When it comes to products used on humans, there are much stricter rules as to what can and can't be used...however, pet products do not have these rules. I don't trust pet products. C'mon they sell cedar chips at the pet store and they are toxic to most animals!!!

Here are the ingredients in VitaShell:

PURIFIED SOFTENED WATER, SUNFLOWER OIL(retains moisture)
EMULCIFYING WAX AND CETYL ALCOHOL(these two just hold everything together)COCONUT OIL, PALM OIL, SOYBEAN OIL, OLIVE OIL, GLYCERINE, LANOLIN, AND COTTONSEED OIL(these have vitamins but mostly used as emollients) STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE LACTATE(used in hair gel, has not been tested in for cosmetic safety), PROTIEN CONDITIONERS(known to make hair stronger but also makes it brittle if used often), DIASOLIDINYL UREA(is an antimicrobial preservative used in cosmetics-was recently re-classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer to its highest toxic class, IARC 1 (known human carcinogen).) ROSEMARY OIL(antioxidant containing caffeic acid...high doses of which caused stomach papillomas(tumors) in rats) METHYLPARABEN (used in deodorant-parabens are used as preservatives-they are also linked to breast cancer as parabens mimic the action of oestrogen and oestrogen can drive the growth of human breast tumors.PROPYLPARABEN(another paraben, mostly used in cigarettes to "prevent spoilage") FD and C yellow #6

*this stuff sounds real healthy eh!!

Both the carapace and the plastron of a tortoise or turtle is comprised of living tissue (unlike a fingernail). The keratin and bony layers contain millions of microscopic pores. I think you are fooling yourself by thinking you can wash this stuff off enough to keep it from clogging pores etc. Most of those emollients are oil based, meaning they don't clean up with water which is why we use them for our skin and why your tortoises shell is still shiny even after you WASH IT ALL OFF!

 

[Redfootedboxturtles]

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-3245.html

there is already a thread on this subject.

 

[TKCARDANDCOIN]

Dani, the main ingredient is purified water!Also do you sprinkle calcium or vitamins on your torts food? The next time you do take a look at the ingredients that make up your calcium or vitamin supplements.Or the next time you reach for a cold pop or shampoo when you wash your hair!Almost everything we eat,drink or use in our daily lives contains ingredients that could harm us or cause cancer in large doses over an extended period of time.My point is, if used in moderation it is harmless!Who does'nt like to look at a tort with a pretty shell?Even simple mineral oil has tocopherols for a stabalizer.I have used vitashell for years, not often, but i use it.I have never had a problem with it and I hope I never do.These threads are great for the simple fact I learn something new every time I read a new post...Anyway, nice debate!You did have some good points.Take care,Tom.

 

[tortelini]

Tom, I concede that moderation is most likely harmless, and we all like to see our animals look shiny and healthy, but the question is whether it is GOOD for the tort...whether it will help heal a torts damaged shell. I think using VitaShell is potentially a lot more hazardouse than feeding a healthy diet in which they get all their necessary vitamins.

And no, I do not give calcium supplements or vitamins to my torts, horses, or children.

 

[Millerlite]

If you clean your tortoise shell with water and a brush, you can get it pretty clean. There is no need for it to be shiny, they arnt a car, or an object you keep polished, its a living animal.

As for in small moderations using it, you can be right, you might never have a health issue and might never see any effects. The only thing i say is why even take the risk if you know you can avoid it.

Also you can use lets say Turtle wax (*yes the kind you use on your car, and yes i used turtle wax because it had turtle in it) and buff you tortoise up, in small amounts i doubt it will effect your tortoise with small amounts or little use. You can use it, but you might think there is a bigger risk in using it, therefor avoid using it, you can almost apply that same concept to vitashell just the vitashell might not have as big as a risk.

On the other hand, i know people that use it, and never had a problem. I'm kind of just on the point of, you choose to use it of not, everyone knows the facts, knows the problems that can be created (or problems not to be created) people are going to use it and people are not going to use it.

Last thing, reminds me i really do need turtle wax, my car is getting faded paint, need to buff it this weekend.

 

[nrfitchett4]

some people use vitashell some people dont, we are a forum that gives out help, we cant force everyone to take the advice and listen. ITs like UVB or any other debate.. people believe what they believe and do what they want to do, cant control everyone.

which is why this is in the "debatable topics" section.
what's your point?

---

I am always up for a good debate....(IF it was me, I would take emysemy's advise without question) As for my opinion, I think that sometimes we buy products that say they are supposed to do us good and trust that these "experts or companies" have our well being in mind when in fact it's just to make money. When it comes to products used on humans, there are much stricter rules as to what can and can't be used...however, pet products do not have these rules. I don't trust pet products. C'mon they sell cedar chips at the pet store and they are toxic to most animals!!!

Here are the ingredients in VitaShell:

PURIFIED SOFTENED WATER, SUNFLOWER OIL(retains moisture)
EMULCIFYING WAX AND CETYL ALCOHOL(these two just hold everything together)COCONUT OIL, PALM OIL, SOYBEAN OIL, OLIVE OIL, GLYCERINE, LANOLIN, AND COTTONSEED OIL(these have vitamins but mostly used as emollients) STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE LACTATE(used in hair gel, has not been tested in for cosmetic safety), PROTIEN CONDITIONERS(known to make hair stronger but also makes it brittle if used often), DIASOLIDINYL UREA(is an antimicrobial preservative used in cosmetics-was recently re-classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer to its highest toxic class, IARC 1 (known human carcinogen).) ROSEMARY OIL(antioxidant containing caffeic acid...high doses of which caused stomach papillomas(tumors) in rats) METHYLPARABEN (used in deodorant-parabens are used as preservatives-they are also linked to breast cancer as parabens mimic the action of oestrogen and oestrogen can drive the growth of human breast tumors.PROPYLPARABEN(another paraben, mostly used in cigarettes to "prevent spoilage") FD and C yellow #6

*this stuff sounds real healthy eh!!

Both the carapace and the plastron of a tortoise or turtle is comprised of living tissue (unlike a fingernail). The keratin and bony layers contain millions of microscopic pores. I think you are fooling yourself by thinking you can wash this stuff off enough to keep it from clogging pores etc. Most of those emollients are oil based, meaning they don't clean up with water which is why we use them for our skin and why your tortoises shell is still shiny even after you WASH IT ALL OFF!

one question for you. Do you drink diet drinks or eat anything with asparatame in it?
Just curious since your so worried about what is in your tort's lotion and what they do to lab rats at high doses.

 

[Millerlite]

my point is this debate is pointless. I'm sure there are more important things.

 

[galvinkaos]

Last thing, reminds me i really do need turtle wax, my car is getting faded paint, need to buff it this weekend.

Aren't you in So. Cal? I hope you are planning on doing it in the garage or under an umbrella. I am looking at a wet weekend forecast and day.

Dawna
(in So Cal)

 

[nrfitchett4]

my point is this debate is pointless. I'm sure there are more important things.

I'm sure there are more important things to do than raise torts, but we still do it. We could be debating the bailout or the world economy, but I don't come here to worry about those things.
This is for all things tort, I'm pretty sure vitashell counts.

 

[Millerlite]

People use vitashell and people dont, people that have used it never had problems, so i say use it, if your against it dont use it, thats all i'm saying, seems like people are saying it will kill your tortoise if you use it, but i dont think a tortoise ever has died or even showed illness from little use of it.

 

[nrfitchett4]

People use vitashell and people dont, people that have used it never had problems, so i say use it, if your against it dont use it, thats all i'm saying, seems like people are saying it will kill your tortoise if you use it, but i dont think a tortoise ever has died or even showed illness from little use of it.

cool site by the way.

 

[dmmj]

LOL painted tortoise nails, that I would like to see haha, is vitashell a liquid? If so could you not put in the torts basking water? Just a thought since I dont use it I can say one way or the other to it effects.

 

[tortoisenerd]

It is a cream I believe; sold in a small plastic jar.

 

[loogielv]

my point is this debate is pointless. I'm sure there are more important things.

way to contribute. in the debate forum no less. thumbs up

 

[Millerlite]

YEAH!

 

[galvinkaos]

isn't the point of a debate to have people give their/opposing side back and forth and other people decide which side they agree with or disagree with?

I like people who debate with themselves. Don't have to wait for the monday morning quarterbacks that way.

Dawna