UV worry

[wilkie]

Hi I have a 9 month old Ibera which has a tort table with UV and heat for cold/wet days and also night use. At the moment as it's been nice weather he is outside everday in his enclosure. His UV ratio worries me though as I know this plays a big part in keeping a smooth shell. Even though he is outside in the sunshine he is only up for maybe 2 hours each day, the rest of the time he is either sleeping in his hide, or if it's a little chilly he's in his coldframe which means he only accesses the UV's for the limited time he is up which is as I say only about 2 hours each day. Is this enough? I have read people have their lights on for 12 hours a day but even if I wake mine up after he's had a little sleep and put him in the sunshine he just goes straight back to bed! He has a weed diet and has limestone and cuttlfish bone. I have also read that he should only eat enough to cover his little shell, but he seems to eat for the entire 2 hours he's up! I can't limit the amount he eats when he's outside as it's all growing in his enclosure. PLEASE HELP!

Wilkie

 

[Yvonne G]

In my opinion, if your tortoise is outside in the sun for a bit every day, you don't need the UV light indoors. I'm not a scientist, and I'm not real sure how the UV works, but this is what I THINK: The UV rays don't just stay in the direct sunshine. I believe they float around in the air, so even if you're in the shade, you are getting the UV on you. My reason for this thinking is I'm from San Francisco and most days in SF are NOT sunny, but overcast. However, when we went to the beach on an overcast day, we usually came home with sunburn!

Yvonne

 

[Stazz]

Yep UV rays can still get through overcast cloudy weather, don't be fooled I got sun stroke from a overcast day on the beach !!!!

 

[Millerlite]

UV rays are actually stronger on overcast days.. .so they say.... But UV rays do bounce around, and when your in the shade your still getting the uv rays. I dont use to UV bulbs anymore, use too, but i try and get my tortoises outside on most days.

 

[Stazz]

Yep exactly, Millerlite is 100% correct

 

[wilkie]

Hi and thanks for your replies.
I agree UV rays bounce around and are also present on overcast days however I'm still concerned that my little guy doesn't stay up for long enough to catch enough of them. Surely when he's buried down in one of his hides the UV can't get down and in there? Also they don't go through polycarbonate so when he's in his coldframe he doesn't get any either so I'm still concerned that only staying up for a maximum of two hours a day may not be enough, is this normal? Also his eating habits are still a concern, I've been told they should put on about 4grams a month he has put on over 12grams in this last month!! As I said his weeds grow in his enclosure and he just eats the whole time he's awake. It's not worms, I've checked for that, so is this normal too for a youngster? O and by the way, you all seem to be from the US etc I'm in gloomy England!!

Wilkie

 

[stells]

I am also in the UK.. mine are out 24/7 and have been since May... the UV gotten from natural sunlight is much better than what can be provided by a lamp... if you are worried he is spending to much time in his coldframe you could block it off for a few hours a day... I really wouldn't worry to much though... he knows what he is doing.... I never stick by the 4 g a month rule that seems to fly about over here... if he is growing smooth then putting on 12g isn't a problem... none of my youngsters put on as little as 4g a month... they need to grow and as they get bigger put on more weight than that...

 

[wilkie]

Thank you Stells. Actually I have been blocking off his coldframe because the weather has been so hot, didn't want him cooking in there! I opened it back up yesterday as the tempretures have now dropped down. When the coldframe is blocked off he just buries down in one of his hides, but if you say he knows what he's doing I shall stop worrying!
How will I know if he is growing smooth though, I mean once they have pyramiding it's obvious, but when they are so small how will I know if its starting, he is smooth now, well not obviously pyramiding anyway, and has new growth lines but its impossible for me to tell whether this new line is smooth or not!
Thanks again for everyones help

 

[stells]

If the new growth is growing flat, even and in line with the older growth as long as that is smooth.... it is growing smooth... is the best way i can describe it lol.... if you are worried put a pic up on here of him and we can take a look at growth... There are also alot of other factors to growing a tortoise up other than UV... diet being one... hydration being another... and using a good quality suppliment

He is still a baby so will sleep more than an older tortoise would... did you get him from a breeder?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hi I have a 9 month old Ibera which has a tort table with UV and heat for cold/wet days and also night use. At the moment as it's been nice weather he is outside everday in his enclosure. His UV ratio worries me though as I know this plays a big part in keeping a smooth shell. Even though he is outside in the sunshine he is only up for maybe 2 hours each day, the rest of the time he is either sleeping in his hide, or if it's a little chilly he's in his coldframe which means he only accesses the UV's for the limited time he is up which is as I say only about 2 hours each day. Is this enough? I have read people have their lights on for 12 hours a day but even if I wake mine up after he's had a little sleep and put him in the sunshine he just goes straight back to bed! He has a weed diet and has limestone and cuttlfish bone. I have also read that he should only eat enough to cover his little shell, but he seems to eat for the entire 2 hours he's up! I can't limit the amount he eats when he's outside as it's all growing in his enclosure. PLEASE HELP!

Wilkie

Hi Wilkie,

This has been one of those that will be hard to correct.. even though "we've" tried for at least 2 YEARS now:

"UV.. plays a big part in keeping a smooth shell"

Not to take issue.. UVB from sunlight is especially vital for herbivores because they don't get it from their diet. [ unlike "forest" torts ] And I agree that a UVB indoors after outside exposure is "over-kill"! My Indian stars do not have a UVB.. and they are doing fantastic after 5+ years in my care. They do get almost daily outdoor sun/shade in the summer.. with a hide if wanted. In the winter [ once every 2-3 weeks ] I do sprinkle calcium with D3 on their greens - NEVER more often!!!

This whole UVB issue has been over-played.. your tort knows what's best for him. Smooth shell is retained by a warm humid hide.

ref. - Richard Fife.. Jerry Fife.. [ phone conversations ] Jon Coote [ Sept. '06 Reptiles mag. ]

FWIW...

Terry K

BTW.. while compiling my post Stells posted hers.. I agree.

 

[wilkie]

Thanks Kelly and Terry for your help.
We have discussed his UV levels and decided that he knows best, I wont worry about that any more. As for his diet it is purely weed and flower based with alot to choose from including mallow, plantain, sow thistle, milk thistle, clover, dandelion, yarrow, hibiscus, lavatera, sedum, campanula, pansy, petunia etc. The weeds are growing in his enclosure but I pick some flowers from the garden for him. He also has a cuttlefish which he has never touched and limestone flour which he just marches through and spreads it everywhere. I wet a flower or leaf and sprinkle some limestone flour onto it and hand feed him this every other day. On the alternate days I do the same thing with reptivite. From what Terry has just said am I doing this too often and will it have done him any harm? I thought he was supposed to have this daily supplement? Also I give him a bath everyday, because he is small and it's been quite warm here, is this ok or is this too often too?
As I said previously he does seem to be putting on more weight than I was told he should, 12 grms this month, I had been told if he puts on more than 4 grms a month then he would pyramid, other than digging up all his weeds so he can't eat so much I don't know how I could stop that.
O and I nearly forgot, yes Kelly he came from a breeder who will be none too happy with me if he does pyramid!
Wilkie

 

[stells]

Whilst outdoors i use a suppliment once per week.... indoors my growing tortoises get it everyday... along with UV lighting... before everyone screams at me about overdose.... i live in the UK the UV index here is rubbish if it gets over 4 its a good day....

 

[wilkie]

should I take it from that then that other than reducing his reptivite to once a week everything else is ok? Keep giving him the limestone flour or stop that too? Just let him eat what he wants and stop worrying?