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Using antibiotics for other tortoise?

AshleyFrench

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Okay, so before I bought Hercules, my Sulcata, I had not been told that he was having issues and not acting like the rest of his batch. They thought that the lady who was helping me had told me, but she didn’t. I took him to the vet twice and on the second visit, they gave me some antibiotics for Galileo. Well, Galileo did not have the chance to receive those antibiotics because he sadly died the next day.
So Hercules has been showing some symptoms of a RI and I was wondering if I could use the antibiotics meant for Galileo on Hercules? They don’t expire until March of 2020 and I would give it to him orally. Is this okay? Or is it not the same? I totally understand if I should get new ones.
 

Yvonne G

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Normally a doctor would take a smear and look at it under a microscope to see what type of 'bug' is involved, then prescribe the type of antibiotic that is best to kill that particular bug. I say "normally" but that's not usually the case with veterinarians. Most vets don't bother with a smear, they just prescribe an antibiotic that is used for reptiles, regardless of the bug they're trying to kill.

If you tell us the name of the antibiotic, we can tell you if it is normally used for R.I. in tortoises.
 

AshleyFrench

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Normally a doctor would take a smear and look at it under a microscope to see what type of 'bug' is involved, then prescribe the type of antibiotic that is best to kill that particular bug. I say "normally" but that's not usually the case with veterinarians. Most vets don't bother with a smear, they just prescribe an antibiotic that is used for reptiles, regardless of the bug they're trying to kill.

If you tell us the name of the antibiotic, we can tell you if it is normally used for R.I. in tortoises.
Okay, so she did not do the smear. But it is called Baytril.
 

Tom

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Here is the problem I have: Vets treat the symptoms. Many of them don't seem to grasp that wild animals, as opposed to domestics, don't just get sick for no reason. You must figure out WHY the tortoises got sick, and take steps to correct the problem, rather than treat the symptoms with harsh drugs that sometimes do more harm than good.

RIs are usually caused by temps that are too cool, especially at night. Lets examine the set up and equipment and see if we can't solve the problem without the drugs. What sort of enclosure are you using? Open topped or closed chamber? What are you using for night heat? What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?

Also, where did you get the tortoises and how were they started? Most people start this species too dry, and it kills them weeks or months later even when the new keeper is doing everything right.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Personally I wouldn't give antibiotics unless I was absolutely sure my tortoise has an RI.
 

AshleyFrench

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Here is the problem I have: Vets treat the symptoms. Many of them don't seem to grasp that wild animals, as opposed to domestics, don't just get sick for no reason. You must figure out WHY the tortoises got sick, and take steps to correct the problem, rather than treat the symptoms with harsh drugs that sometimes do more harm than good.

RIs are usually caused by temps that are too cool, especially at night. Lets examine the set up and equipment and see if we can't solve the problem without the drugs. What sort of enclosure are you using? Open topped or closed chamber? What are you using for night heat? What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?

Also, where did you get the tortoises and how were they started? Most people start this species too dry, and it kills them weeks or months later even when the new keeper is doing everything right.
Okay, would you like me to just send you a couple pictures of the enclosure and then if the temperatures and humidity?
 

Yvonne G

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Yes, that would be good. And don't use the Baytril. It is a very harsh drug. Let's try other fixes first.
 

Tom

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Okay, would you like me to just send you a couple pictures of the enclosure and then if the temperatures and humidity?
Yes. Post the pics and info right here. We will all learn from it, and you'll get a more complete answer from the group than from any one individual.
 

AshleyFrench

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Yes. Post the pics and info right here. We will all learn from it, and you'll get a more complete answer from the group than from any one individual.
Okay. So this is what my enclosure looks like.
In the dome on the right is a CHE and on the top is a basking bulb. There is a UVB light inside as well. I only turn off the basking bulb and UVB at night. During the day, the hottest temperature is 95 degrees and the coldest side is 85 degrees. At night, it never goes below 80 degrees on the cold side. Humidity stays above 40 at all times, most of the time it is 50-60. As you can see, I have planted some Sulcata Food seeds in his enclosure, yet he doesn’t eat them. Every day, I give him green leaf lettuce, zucchini, aloe Vera, or cactus. I normally bathe him every day, but sometimes I don’t have time to wait for 30 or so minutes. But that is not often. He comes out every single time that I spray the bark and seems to walk around whenever I add something to his enclosure or switch things around. But when it stays the same, he doesn’t care much, I think. So he just sleeps. Anything else?
 

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Tom

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I think things are too dry and you should cover the top and get rid of the humidifier, but I suspect that isn't your issue.

Where did you get them, and how were they started in their first few days and weeks? What does he weigh?
 

AshleyFrench

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I think things are too dry and you should cover the top and get rid of the humidifier, but I suspect that isn't your issue.

Where did you get them, and how were they started in their first few days and weeks? What does he weigh?
So the humidifier is the only thing that is keeping the humidity up, along with me spraying the substrate twice a day. If I took it out, then I wouldn't know how to keep the humidity up. Also, I got them at a pet store and with the small knowledge that I have now, I would not have bought them there. I tried asking them which breeder that they bought them from, but the manager seemed a bit irritated when I was asking specifically what the breeder was called. He said that they came from some zoo in California. He gave me the actual name, but I cannot remember what it is. So I cannot tell you how they were started, sadly. And he weighs 3.3 ounces.
 

Tom

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So the humidifier is the only thing that is keeping the humidity up, along with me spraying the substrate twice a day. If I took it out, then I wouldn't know how to keep the humidity up. Also, I got them at a pet store and with the small knowledge that I have now, I would not have bought them there. I tried asking them which breeder that they bought them from, but the manager seemed a bit irritated when I was asking specifically what the breeder was called. He said that they came from some zoo in California. He gave me the actual name, but I cannot remember what it is. So I cannot tell you how they were started, sadly. And he weighs 3.3 ounces.
If he's 3.3 ounces (95 grams), we can eliminate "Breeder Failure Syndrome".

You keep humidity up by stopping it from leaving through the open top. You need a closed chamber. This makes it MUCH easier to maintain the correct warm and humid conditions. Using a humidifier is like plugging the hole in the dam with your finger. Instead, repair the hole. Stop the warm humid air from escaping. I'm not sure its good for them to be breathing that sort of water laden air that comes out of a humidifier.

Like these:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-stack-of-animal-plastics-closed-chambers.165626/#post-1600958
 

Sterant

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Though there are certainly instances where it was administered safely and effectively, I have personally seen a range of reactions to injectable baytril from bad to horrible. I have not heard of allergic reactions in sulcata but I stay away from the stuff in general. If you need to treat - once you have your husbandry sorted, look for another option.

Check this out: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/baytril.html
 

AshleyFrench

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If he's 3.3 ounces (95 grams), we can eliminate "Breeder Failure Syndrome".

You keep humidity up by stopping it from leaving through the open top. You need a closed chamber. This makes it MUCH easier to maintain the correct warm and humid conditions. Using a humidifier is like plugging the hole in the dam with your finger. Instead, repair the hole. Stop the warm humid air from escaping. I'm not sure its good for them to be breathing that sort of water laden air that comes out of a humidifier.

Like these:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-stack-of-animal-plastics-closed-chambers.165626/#post-1600958
Okay! Thank you!
 

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