Tortoise table advice...

[dd1298]

Hey there,

I'm brand new to this forum (although I've been lurking for a few days) and it seems like the best place to get some solid advice regarding my first tortoise (baby (2012) Hermanni)! I received the little fella as a Christmas present a few weeks ago and he/she is doing wonderful; eating like a champ and not shy at all. I've been temporarily keeping him/her in a tub as I waited for a friend to build me tortoise table. The dude is really handy and went kinda overboard on the construction (which looks amazing). All the dimensions are excellent, but there's one potential problem... not knowing about the potential hazards, he made most of the enclosure out of cedar because it would be the most "weatherproof" when kept outside (I'm in central Texas btw). I feel terrible about not warning him before hand, and still want to use it somehow (it's an open air 4' x 2' enclosure). Is there any way I could use some form of non-toxic coating or a liner that would safely seal off any of the aromatic oils from irritating my tortoise?

Any advice is greatly appreciated! Look forward to getting to know everyone!

-Dom

 

[Millerlite]

I use a shower curtain to protect wood from the substrate and moist soil. It would work both ways. They make clear ones and with some time you probably can get it on there without it being to noticeable. I recommend a staple gun if you go this route. Plus side is it will def. keep your tort spew rate from the wood.

Sealants idk never use them I found tarps, shower curtains or liners are better. Idk if you put a sealant in the wood I mean the wood would soak it up. But not really familiar with them cuz I'm using a shower curtain myself lol maybe some others can chime in on this part.

 

[Thalatte]

Several coats of polyurethane will also seal it off and you wouldn't have to worry about the shower curtain ripping or degrading over time.

 

[GBtortoises]

You're going to have problems with most finishes adhering/absorbing if using cedar. Cedar contains a natural rot resistant oil within it's pores, which to some degree also repels most insects. But it also repels other liquids such as water and other oils. Both of which are the primary base of manmade finishes.

On pine (boards & plywood) I have used a good quality alkyd enamel latex paint for years with no problems whatsoever. Caulk all the seams where the wood meets, apply a coat of primer and then at least two coats of the paint. Allow to cure completely, usually about 48 hours under normal temperatures and humidity, then add substrate and animals.

 

[Tom]

I would not use it indoors. I have had many a crying little kid with a dead hamster in their hands on the other side of the counter because someone sold them cedar shavings for their pet...

Total bummer I know, but how would either you or your builder friend feel if you found the tortoise dead? Just not worth the risk in my opinion, sealed or not.

 

[dd1298]

I would not use it indoors. I have had many a crying little kid with a dead hamster in their hands on the other side of the counter because someone sold them cedar shavings for their pet...

Total bummer I know, but how would either you or your builder friend feel if you found the tortoise dead? Just not worth the risk in my opinion, sealed or not.

Yeah, that's certainly my biggest fear. What if it were used outdoors for the majority of the year? Would those two or three months inside still be too risky if it were sealed?

Thanks for the input Tom.

Dom

 

[dd1298]

I use a shower curtain to protect wood from the substrate and moist soil. It would work both ways. They make clear ones and with some time you probably can get it on there without it being to noticeable. I recommend a staple gun if you go this route. Plus side is it will def. keep your tort spew rate from the wood.

Sealants idk never use them I found tarps, shower curtains or liners are better. Idk if you put a sealant in the wood I mean the wood would soak it up. But not really familiar with them cuz I'm using a shower curtain myself lol maybe some others can chime in on this part.

Using pond liner or a shower curtain was probably my first thought, its nice to know someone else has done it.

Thanks,

Dom

 

[dd1298]

You're going to have problems with most finishes adhering/absorbing if using cedar. Cedar contains a natural rot resistant oil within it's pores, which to some degree also repels most insects. But it also repels other liquids such as water and other oils. Both of which are the primary base of manmade finishes.

On pine (boards & plywood) I have used a good quality alkyd enamel latex paint for years with no problems whatsoever. Caulk all the seams where the wood meets, apply a coat of primer and then at least two coats of the paint. Allow to cure completely, usually about 48 hours under normal temperatures and humidity, then add substrate and animals.

Cool, I'd never thought of this. Thanks for the detail.

Dom

 

[Tom]

No one has any way of actually knowing this. I just would not risk it based on my many experiences with cedar and dead animals in the pet trade.

I would not use it indoors. I have had many a crying little kid with a dead hamster in their hands on the other side of the counter because someone sold them cedar shavings for their pet...

Total bummer I know, but how would either you or your builder friend feel if you found the tortoise dead? Just not worth the risk in my opinion, sealed or not.

Yeah, that's certainly my biggest fear. What if it were used outdoors for the majority of the year? Would those two or three months inside still be too risky if it were sealed?

Thanks for the input Tom.

Dom

 

[yagyujubei]

I would paint it with a good quality exterior house paint, like SW A-100. Put it outside to air out a bit, and then bring it in and check for fumes. I just recently painted my house, and there is no cedar smell through the paint.

 

[dd1298]

I would paint it with a good quality exterior house paint, like SW A-100. Put it outside to air out a bit, and then bring it in and check for fumes. I just recently painted my house, and there is no cedar smell through the paint.

Nice! I'll definitely look into this.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[GBtortoises]

It is true that cedar dust or solids can potentially be toxic it takes quite a bit of exposure to pose a threat. This is even more true when you're just talking about the fumes that the wood gives off. Cedar, once it is adequately sealed from exposure is no more toxic than any other softwood. The longer the wood is openly exposed to air and then sealed the more it will dry out and except sealer better too. Once the tree has been cut into lumber the wood can no longer produce toxin. The toxin is produced only in the live tree. So the more you dry the lumber, the more toxin dissapates from it.
Cedar is not recommended as bedding for animals because the shavings are fresh cut and bagged as well as compacted. All of which holds the oils that contain the toxin within the wood better. The aromatic odor that you smell in fresh cedar is the oil which contain the toxins. Over time that aroma gets weaker because the wood is drying and losing it's toxicity.

While I am not advocating the use of cedar as an ideal enclosure material, it's danger of exposure once properly dried and sealed is no more dangerous than any other material. Pine for example can also be toxic if not properly dried and sealed. As well as MDF board which is what the majority of department store bookcases and other mass produced furniture is made of nowadays. This material contains various hardwood and softwood fibers, many of which are considered toxic in their individual state. It is held together with resin which contains formaldehyde. What keeps it from being toxic by means of exposure? A seal or sealer. Either some form of thin vinyl covering, melamaine, occasionally a laminate or sealer of some sort (paint, urethane or lacquer finish).

 

[Thalatte]

I know it's not a tortoise but a friends water dragon enclosure is made out of cedar. They put the wood outside to dry for two days then sealed it with 4 coats of poly and every 4 years the reseal it. The dragon has now been in the enclosure for 8-9years without any adverse health issues.
As long as seal it it is fine to use as a full time enclosure.