Tortoise shell separating?
- Thread starter Liltort777
- Start date
The_Four_Toed_Edward
Well-Known Member
Hopefully @zovick will take a look. Is there any blood or discharge? How does the other side look?
Liltort777
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2013
- Messages
- 5,059
This is a very strange occurrence. I really don't know what would cause this type of separation if not due to trauma of some kind.
Perhaps it could be a bacterial or fungal infection. It might be worth trying to apply athlete's foot cream to those areas one day and then Neosporin ointment the next day for a couple of weeks to see if that will help.
Note the Neosporin treats bacterial infections and the athlete's foot cream treats fungal infections. Since I am not sure which may work, I am recommending alternating them to cover both possibilities.
Is the tortoise acting normally and eating OK?
Good luck.
Liltort777
New Member
He’s a Russian and yeah the breeder I got him from said he was 3 months and it’s been another now, I don’t have anything in his enclosure that would get him stuck almost everyday I see where he’s at before night and he stays in the same area the next day, his under side is soft and closer to edges is also soft but he has uvb lights and calcium powder on occasion, I’m hoping vets sees him today
Looks like a new growth seam to me - The new keratin just starting to fill in. With conditions not correct for a period, new growth can appear first at the costal/marginal seam and the other scute seams get "stuck".
Its growth the first month or two so looks to be fairly good except for a bit dry, but the last month the only growth is appearing at the bottom seams.
How is this tortoise being kept? Perhaps if you can go through all the care with us we can help. I would suspect: Heating, UVB, Diet, Hydration as possible issues.
Its growth the first month or two so looks to be fairly good except for a bit dry, but the last month the only growth is appearing at the bottom seams.
How is this tortoise being kept? Perhaps if you can go through all the care with us we can help. I would suspect: Heating, UVB, Diet, Hydration as possible issues.
Liltort777
New Member
He’s kept in his enclosure most of the time reptisoil humidity of 55-70 (vet said it was a bit to high), some logs big enough to go in but steep enough where he can’t climb them , I soak him every 3 days and feed him new food everyday but he usually eats every 2 days with a basking spot of 97° and surrounding area of 74-80 in warm side while cool side is 73-74.
Welcome to the Forum!
Please post some pictures of his enclosure.
All species of tortoises NEED it to be warm and humid for the first two or three years of life. The 70F is too cold for any/every hatchling. Consistently warm (mid-80sF is good, a bit higher is better), all the time, no warmer sides, which means you will need a closed chamber to keep the heat and humidity inside where your hatchling is.
Babies need soaked daily, in water that never gets chilly (95F if you can measure it, on the warmer side of Lukewarm when running across the inside of your wrist otherwise), only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, so watch the temp very closely. It is so shallow that it will lose heat fast! It is imperative you keep him warm.
What are you feeding?
Have you had a chance to read this yet:
tortoiseforum.org
The after understanding the link above:
tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
Please ask questions and post pictures so we can see exactly what you are talking about (example: enclosure can mean anything, let's see what you actually have).
We will all do all we can to help you help your tortoise thrive. Ask lots of questions, run it past members here before you spend money on anything.
Pet stores are notorious for selling you things you don't need, we can probably head you toward something better that usually isn't as expensive.
Welcome aboard!
.
Please post some pictures of his enclosure.
All species of tortoises NEED it to be warm and humid for the first two or three years of life. The 70F is too cold for any/every hatchling. Consistently warm (mid-80sF is good, a bit higher is better), all the time, no warmer sides, which means you will need a closed chamber to keep the heat and humidity inside where your hatchling is.
Babies need soaked daily, in water that never gets chilly (95F if you can measure it, on the warmer side of Lukewarm when running across the inside of your wrist otherwise), only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, so watch the temp very closely. It is so shallow that it will lose heat fast! It is imperative you keep him warm.
What are you feeding?
Have you had a chance to read this yet:
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
tortoiseforum.org
The after understanding the link above:
Common keeping errors
Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...
tortoiseforum.org
Beginner Mistakes
To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...
tortoiseforum.org
Housing young Russian/Herman
Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...
tortoiseforum.org
The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...
tortoiseforum.org
Please ask questions and post pictures so we can see exactly what you are talking about (example: enclosure can mean anything, let's see what you actually have).
We will all do all we can to help you help your tortoise thrive. Ask lots of questions, run it past members here before you spend money on anything.
Pet stores are notorious for selling you things you don't need, we can probably head you toward something better that usually isn't as expensive.
Welcome aboard!
.
Liltort777
New Member
These are photos of his enclosure and temps /humidity without soaking it I usually soak it a bit with spray bottle and it stays at 75 humidity for 4 hours before dropping.Welcome to the Forum!
Please post some pictures of his enclosure.
All species of tortoises NEED it to be warm and humid for the first two or three years of life. The 70F is too cold for any/every hatchling. Consistently warm (mid-80sF is good, a bit higher is better), all the time, no warmer sides, which means you will need a closed chamber to keep the heat and humidity inside where your hatchling is.
Babies need soaked daily, in water that never gets chilly (95F if you can measure it, on the warmer side of Lukewarm when running across the inside of your wrist otherwise), only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together, so watch the temp very closely. It is so shallow that it will lose heat fast! It is imperative you keep him warm.
What are you feeding?
Have you had a chance to read this yet:
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
The after understanding the link above:
Common keeping errors
Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...Beginner Mistakes
To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...
Housing young Russian/Herman
Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...
The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...
Please ask questions and post pictures so we can see exactly what you are talking about (example: enclosure can mean anything, let's see what you actually have).
We will all do all we can to help you help your tortoise thrive. Ask lots of questions, run it past members here before you spend money on anything.
Pet stores are notorious for selling you things you don't need, we can probably head you toward something better that usually isn't as expensive.
Welcome aboard!
.
I feed him a tort seed mix of weeds and spring mix with the pellets usually add calcium powder every 3 days. he eats every other day while I change his food everyday.
I’m not sure what I did wrong and can’t find any similar info on what’s happening to this guy
Attachments
TheTortoiseKing
Active Member
First you NEED to remove the moss because it can cause problems if ingested. Try to keep the humidity high which you can do by making the enclosure closed. What do temps look like at night?
That setup WILL kill him. NO MOSS and your humidity is about 0% no way it’s 70% with an open top. I’m on a darn tablet so typing is more than frustrating but I’m sure there will be others to explain in more detail
Liltort777
New Member
There’s a plexi glass covering the top leaving the uvb light uncovered
Liltort777
New Member
Literally copied an enclosure from goldenstatetortoise on YouTube in pretty sure this is suitable for a Russian.
enclosure is closed with plexi glass
Welcome to the Forum!
You found the place that has the best info!
So many sources elsewhere repeat the old info that only had one-size-fits-all, marginally acceptable, outcomes. The expert members here have discovered much better ways, through hands-on experiences and controlled studies over the last thirty or forty years.
For your own peace of mind don't listen to the "advice" given by other sources (like: pet shops, social media sites, people at reptile shows, official sources - eg: many government and university links, many of the YouTube videos, lots of the care books you can borrow from a library or buy, and even most veterinarians). They're still using old info that doesn't work as well. Settle in here instead.
Everyone will do their best to help you help your tortoise have the most optimal and healthy life possible.
Read the info in the links offered. All those head-exploding details will show you how to help your tortoise thrive.
And, ask questions.
Hint:
Run it by the other members before you buy new equipment or whatever - their expertise will save you a lot of time, stress, money, and damage to your tortoise.
Have you had a chance to read through this yet?
______________________________________________________________________
Specifically in answer to your postings:
Please let go of what info you have found elsewhere, its mostly wrong. If it is genuinely good keeping practices, it will be included here, but if it is not, it won't be. The results from using the old info tend to leave tortoises in marginal health, but because they don't bark or whine, they can't convey that they aren't in the best shape until its severe. People have just taken it for granted that the old ways were the way to keep them. We strive for having tortoises and turtles THRIVE. There is quite a difference. Anything advised here has empirical or data-driven reasons behind it ,which can be shared or a link to it provided.
First - ALL hatchlings need warm and humid for the first two to three years to have an optimal life. It does not appear you have come across this info from the other sources you cited. Warm means 80s and 90sF. Humid means mid-80s or higher percentages. All the time, for two-to-three years.
Second - As has been said above, get that moss out of the enclosure. It has been known to cause gastro-intestinal blockages and impactions. Like human babies, it will go into your tortoise's mouth and it serves no good purpose.
Third - Why were you at the Vet's? Most Vets don't know tortoise care. They get a lot of hours in the study of mammals while at their University, but not much for reptiles, and usually even less focus on such diverse species as tortoises. Unless the Vet keeps torts themself, there is a good chance that (s)he just doesn't know what the best care practices are for tortoises. That your Vet told you 70 was high for a young tortoise underscores this. We have had members report that the Vet they went to see could not even identify which species their tortoise was.
For future reference : Never allow a Vet to talk you into vitamin injections. They are unnecessary and tend to do more harm than good. It is also best to confer with the members here as to what antibiotics to use, should the need arise. There are some that get regularly prescribed by veterinarians that can kill tortoises.
Fourth - I am not seeing a water bowl in the enclosure. Water is crucial to have available at all times for a hatchling (really for every stage of life). 'Best is a clean new terracotta plant saucer, countersunk into the substrate. Don't ever use the plastic ones from pet stores - they have steep sides making it difficult-to-impossible for hatchlings to get in and out of; they do not provide traction which can cause ligament and muscle damage; due to the vertical sides young torts tend to flip over trying to get out and can drown or get stressed and exhausted trying to right themselves; amongst other problems with these water dishes.
Fifth - https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/common-keeping-errors.217956/
Your system needs to be sealed/closed completely for your baby. No vents or openings because any gap or slight opening will draft your heat and humidity out, making it impossible to keep a stable level of each.
The tortoise table you havethat are commercially foisted off on unsuspecting new tortoise enthusiasts is not good for any stage of life. They are too difficult to keep humid for hatchlings or tropical species, and too small of space for adults.
Never use a spray/fogger/mister. They create droplets, not humidity. Look at the nose holes (nares) of your tortoise. They are tiny compared to those droplets, which can make breathing difficult, and can cause respiratory problems. The best way to have a stable humidity is to have the lowest bit of substrate lightly wet, which then evaporates up through the upper several inches of dry substrate and provides a steady stable humidity. Any time the gauges show it dropping slightly you simply pour a couple cups of warm water into the corners to bring it up to the desired level. (Is your enclosure lined?. If not you will need to remove all the substrate, line the enclosure with plastic, and re-establish the substrate. If you do this give a shout and we can provide more details.)
You said something in #13 about Plexiglass on top, then something about the lights. Could you please explain that more clearly. I don't understand and can't see what you are saying from the pics.
Sixth - Tortoises do everything slowly. If your hatchling was handled roughly back at the breeder's, it could easily take this long for the damage to show up.
Speaking of the breeder, who was it and how was this baby started?
If they are started poorly it can affect their life, even shorten it. The people espousing the old ways don't usually do a good start, and the baby can have poor health, or worse - which the breeders then claim is not their fault because someone else had care of the tortoise after a few months. A good start is important.
tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
Seventh - You are soaking far to little. A hatchling needs daily soaks (twice is better) of at least a half hour. The water needs to be warm (aim for 90-95F) for the entire soak. It should only be as deep as where the top and bottom shell come together. Because this is so shallow you will have to watch closely that it doesn't get cooled off. Also, do not put your tortoise back into its enclosure when the water is in the cooling down phase - you want to put him/her back all warm and comfy.
There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.
I hope this is helpful. Its a lot to take in. All of us were misled to start with. You'll have it down really soon!
Welcome aboard!
.
You found the place that has the best info!
So many sources elsewhere repeat the old info that only had one-size-fits-all, marginally acceptable, outcomes. The expert members here have discovered much better ways, through hands-on experiences and controlled studies over the last thirty or forty years.
For your own peace of mind don't listen to the "advice" given by other sources (like: pet shops, social media sites, people at reptile shows, official sources - eg: many government and university links, many of the YouTube videos, lots of the care books you can borrow from a library or buy, and even most veterinarians). They're still using old info that doesn't work as well. Settle in here instead.
Everyone will do their best to help you help your tortoise have the most optimal and healthy life possible.
Read the info in the links offered. All those head-exploding details will show you how to help your tortoise thrive.
And, ask questions.
Hint:
Run it by the other members before you buy new equipment or whatever - their expertise will save you a lot of time, stress, money, and damage to your tortoise.
Have you had a chance to read through this yet?
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...______________________________________________________________________
Specifically in answer to your postings:
Please let go of what info you have found elsewhere, its mostly wrong. If it is genuinely good keeping practices, it will be included here, but if it is not, it won't be. The results from using the old info tend to leave tortoises in marginal health, but because they don't bark or whine, they can't convey that they aren't in the best shape until its severe. People have just taken it for granted that the old ways were the way to keep them. We strive for having tortoises and turtles THRIVE. There is quite a difference. Anything advised here has empirical or data-driven reasons behind it ,which can be shared or a link to it provided.
First - ALL hatchlings need warm and humid for the first two to three years to have an optimal life. It does not appear you have come across this info from the other sources you cited. Warm means 80s and 90sF. Humid means mid-80s or higher percentages. All the time, for two-to-three years.
Second - As has been said above, get that moss out of the enclosure. It has been known to cause gastro-intestinal blockages and impactions. Like human babies, it will go into your tortoise's mouth and it serves no good purpose.
Third - Why were you at the Vet's? Most Vets don't know tortoise care. They get a lot of hours in the study of mammals while at their University, but not much for reptiles, and usually even less focus on such diverse species as tortoises. Unless the Vet keeps torts themself, there is a good chance that (s)he just doesn't know what the best care practices are for tortoises. That your Vet told you 70 was high for a young tortoise underscores this. We have had members report that the Vet they went to see could not even identify which species their tortoise was.
For future reference : Never allow a Vet to talk you into vitamin injections. They are unnecessary and tend to do more harm than good. It is also best to confer with the members here as to what antibiotics to use, should the need arise. There are some that get regularly prescribed by veterinarians that can kill tortoises.
Fourth - I am not seeing a water bowl in the enclosure. Water is crucial to have available at all times for a hatchling (really for every stage of life). 'Best is a clean new terracotta plant saucer, countersunk into the substrate. Don't ever use the plastic ones from pet stores - they have steep sides making it difficult-to-impossible for hatchlings to get in and out of; they do not provide traction which can cause ligament and muscle damage; due to the vertical sides young torts tend to flip over trying to get out and can drown or get stressed and exhausted trying to right themselves; amongst other problems with these water dishes.
Fifth - https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/common-keeping-errors.217956/
Your system needs to be sealed/closed completely for your baby. No vents or openings because any gap or slight opening will draft your heat and humidity out, making it impossible to keep a stable level of each.
The tortoise table you have
Never use a spray/fogger/mister. They create droplets, not humidity. Look at the nose holes (nares) of your tortoise. They are tiny compared to those droplets, which can make breathing difficult, and can cause respiratory problems. The best way to have a stable humidity is to have the lowest bit of substrate lightly wet, which then evaporates up through the upper several inches of dry substrate and provides a steady stable humidity. Any time the gauges show it dropping slightly you simply pour a couple cups of warm water into the corners to bring it up to the desired level. (Is your enclosure lined?. If not you will need to remove all the substrate, line the enclosure with plastic, and re-establish the substrate. If you do this give a shout and we can provide more details.)
You said something in #13 about Plexiglass on top, then something about the lights. Could you please explain that more clearly. I don't understand and can't see what you are saying from the pics.
Sixth - Tortoises do everything slowly. If your hatchling was handled roughly back at the breeder's, it could easily take this long for the damage to show up.
Speaking of the breeder, who was it and how was this baby started?
If they are started poorly it can affect their life, even shorten it. The people espousing the old ways don't usually do a good start, and the baby can have poor health, or worse - which the breeders then claim is not their fault because someone else had care of the tortoise after a few months. A good start is important.
The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...
tortoiseforum.org
Russian Tortoise Enclosure Advice
I'm very seriously considering a Russian Tortoise as a new addition to my family. Right now I have a 55 gallon aquarium that I'm a bit lost on how to best set up for my unaquired new friend. Due to the climate that I live in I'll be able to set up a small outdoor "playpen" but the large and main...
tortoiseforum.org
Housing young Russian/Herman
Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...
tortoiseforum.org
Seventh - You are soaking far to little. A hatchling needs daily soaks (twice is better) of at least a half hour. The water needs to be warm (aim for 90-95F) for the entire soak. It should only be as deep as where the top and bottom shell come together. Because this is so shallow you will have to watch closely that it doesn't get cooled off. Also, do not put your tortoise back into its enclosure when the water is in the cooling down phase - you want to put him/her back all warm and comfy.
There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.
I hope this is helpful. Its a lot to take in. All of us were misled to start with. You'll have it down really soon!
Welcome aboard!
.
Last edited:
So what. It’s wrong and it will kill your tortoise. Maybe both of you can have a cup of coffee together and talk about your dead tortoises.
The_Four_Toed_Edward
Well-Known Member
We had a debate on one of his videos a while back. Some of the info is good, some not and the video leaves a lot up to interpretation.
Tom's response to "Garden State Tortoise" Video
I wanted to move this here so not hijack the other thread. I hope to have a pleasant and meaningful conversation about this subject. Here is Tom's response to this video. "Some of this is good info, but you and everyone reading should be aware of the problems with this info. 1. No mention...
tortoiseforum.org
I need to say……
I’m not trying to be rude or disrespectful BUT I will speak for what’s best for every tort no matter how it effects anyone’s feelings
Liltort777
New Member
I understand but the part I don’t get is how his shell separated like falling off the bone there wasn’t like a gap of time it was like from 1-2 days I suppose but it’s so odd can’t even find similar situations online.
I’ve only had him for a month and I don’t think he’s had bad care in my hands
Dear @Liltort777,I understand but the part I don’t get is how his shell separated like falling off the bone there wasn’t like a gap of time it was like from 1-2 days I suppose but it’s so odd can’t even find similar situations online.
I’ve only had him for a month and I don’t think he’s had bad care in my hands
Please keep posting and don't be put off.
MaNaAk
