Tortoise poops calcium powder?

[Reptilony]

My baby sulcata just pooped in her soaking bowl and something that seems to be calcium powder came out. It's not gooey it really is powder. I put calcium supplement very rarely maybe once every two week and I only put a little bit. I don't want kids but I feel like having a baby tortoise is kind of the same thing...im SO happy when I see her poop! Can someone tell me why this is coming out of her rear end? I will now join a picture of a poop floating in water...
Ps; the thing on the left is no poo it is a hole in the bowl

 

[daniellenc]

Those are dry urates so your tortoise is a bit dehydrated. They should be pastey. Posting pictures of your setup, temps, diet, and soaking routine is helpful.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Just urates

What is this white stuff my tortoise pooped out?
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/What-is-this-white-stuff-my-tortoise-pooped-out?.70277/

 

[Tom]

Babies should be soaked daily. When they are, you don't see urates. If you are seeing urates, it means they were far too dry at some recent point. Hopefully long daily soaks will help your tortoise pass all the urates, and get better hydrated.

 

[Reptilony]

All my temps are good humidity too, I soak her everyday... Could it be from when she was in an open top enclosure two weeks ago? I have never seen her drink from her water dish and rarely see her drink while she soak. What can I do? Just longer soaks?

 

[Reptilony]

This is what I feed today it's a mix of endive, dandelion and grass.

 

[Tom]

Could it be from when she was in an open top enclosure two weeks ago?Just longer soaks?

Yes and yes.

 

[Tom]

This is what I feed today it's a mix of endive, dandelion and grass.

All of those are great foods. Be sure to use lots of different things.

 

[Reptilony]

All of those are great foods. Be sure to use lots of different things.

Thank you, yes I am currently growing wheat, turnip and millet so I might start feeding that in a few days and I will buy some aragula this week.

 

[Yvonne G]

Take a look at this thread that's pinned at the top of our FAQ section:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/what-is-this-white-stuff-my-tortoise-pooped-out.70277/

 

[Brian Perry]

Just urates

What is this white stuff my tortoise pooped out?
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/What-is-this-white-stuff-my-tortoise-pooped-out?.70277/

When mammals excrete protein breakdown products, they urinate urea. With reptiles and birds, they excrete uric acid. This is generally observed as a pasty white substance. However, tortoises have limits to the amount of calcium they can absorb. So, if fed grossly excessive amounts, it could conceivably be visible in their feces. Although I do it on occasion, I'm not a big fan of soaking, I hydrate my tortoises by feeding them Costco organic romaine lettuce a couple times a week. Seems to work.

 

[Melis]

When mammals excrete protein breakdown products, they urinate urea. With reptiles and birds, they excrete uric acid. This is generally observed as a pasty white substance. However, tortoises have limits to the amount of calcium they can absorb. So, if fed grossly excessive amounts, it could conceivably be visible in their feces. Although I do it on occasion, I'm not a big fan of soaking, I hydrate my tortoises by feeding them Costco organic romaine lettuce a couple times a week. Seems to work.

Curious to hear why you aren’t a fan of soaking?

 

[Brian Perry]

Curious to hear why you aren’t a fan of soaking?

As you are aware, tortoises frequently defecate into the water when soaking. Frequently, they become agitated and slosh around. I am always worried that the contaminated water will get into their eyes and cause an infection or be aspirated through their nostrils and into their lungs. I once had a bad experience and lost three star tortoises. I only soak a new arrival and would never soak in groups. Personally, I think soaking is overrated...but, that's me.

 

[Tom]

As you are aware, tortoises frequently defecate into the water when soaking. Frequently, they become agitated and slosh around. I am always worried that the contaminated water will get into their eyes and cause an infection or be aspirated through their nostrils and into their lungs. I once had a bad experience and lost three star tortoises. I only soak a new arrival and would never soak in groups. Personally, I think soaking is overrated...but, that's me.

Soaking is a life saver. Your fears of it are unfounded and disproven, and your animals are suffering for it. I have dozens of adults of several species and I've raised literally hundreds of babies over the last 10 years with daily soaks. I'm sure its over 1000, but I haven't kept a count. CDTs, russians, leopards, sulcatas, radiata, and stars. Not one single instance of aspiration or eye infection in all these years and daily soaking.

They need the hydration. Romaine twice a week isn't going to get it done in my experience. I used to not soak. I know what the results of that are. Now I soak babies daily and the difference is astounding. You should really reconsider your stance on this. I'm happy to discuss it further.

 

[Brian Perry]

If my animals are suffering, there is no manifestation of it. Many promote the value of soaking, yet all claims are based totally on anecdotal evidence. Have you or anyone else ever measured blood volume or interstitial fluid content following a soak? The skin of a tortoise is thick and impervious (but yes, I acknowledge there are thinner areas). How do advocates of soaking propose that water becomes internalized during soaking? I once had this discussion with the owner of a reptile vivarium and he spoke about small amounts of water perhaps entering the cloacal opening...really? It is true that in the wild tortoises can be observed sitting in pools of water. But this can easily be explained in terms of either thermoregulation or an attempt to remove ticks and external parasites.

I do agree that hydration is most important with hatchlings, due to their thinner skin and increased surface-to-volume ratio. In this particular case, wetting of the skin by soaking would probably blunt the loss of water. However, this same objective could probably be accomplished by either an increase in relative humidity and//or misting. IMO...the key value of soaking is that, on occasion, it provides both stimulation and an opportunity for a tortoise to drink. However, that is rarely observed. In captivity, tortoises are typically fed a diet with a much higher water content than that which would be available in the wild. Tortoises are built to conserve water. To hydrate them internally by feeding them crisp water-rich foods (such as romaine lettuce) rather than hoping that water somehow, magically, diffuses through the skin makes the most sense to me. But, I could be wrong.

 

[Yvonne G]

If my animals are suffering, there is no manifestation of it. Many promote the value of soaking, yet all claims are based totally on anecdotal evidence. Have you or anyone else ever measured blood volume or interstitial fluid content following a soak? The skin of a tortoise is thick and impervious (but yes, I acknowledge there are thinner areas). How do advocates of soaking propose that water becomes internalized during soaking? I once had this discussion with the owner of a reptile vivarium and he spoke about small amounts of water perhaps entering the cloacal opening...really? It is true that in the wild tortoises can be observed sitting in pools of water. But this can easily be explained in terms of either thermoregulation or an attempt to remove ticks and external parasites.

I do agree that hydration is most important with hatchlings, due to their thinner skin and increased surface-to-volume ratio. In this particular case, wetting of the skin by soaking would probably blunt the loss of water. However, this same objective could probably be accomplished by either an increase in relative humidity and//or misting. IMO...the key value of soaking is that, on occasion, it provides both stimulation and an opportunity for a tortoise to drink. However, that is rarely observed. In captivity, tortoises are typically fed a diet with a much higher water content than that which would be available in the wild. Tortoises are built to conserve water. To hydrate them internally by feeding them crisp water-rich foods (such as romaine lettuce) rather than hoping that water somehow, magically, diffuses through the skin makes the most sense to me. But, I could be wrong.

Many, many years ago I read an article in the newsletter for the National Turtle and Tortoise Society (based out of Arizona), written by a well known at that time tortoise vet. His name was something like "Jartchow", but memory fails me. Anyway, he wrote in the article that tortoises absorb nutrients through the thin skin on their throat and around the cloaca, and that's why soaking in the diluted baby food was beneficial to tortoises that weren't eating. My friend Google told me a few years ago that the only turtle or tortoise that actually gets any water through the cloaca is one of the water turtles indigenous to Australia.

Too bad there isn't any money for science on turtles and tortoises. I'll bet @Will could find some sort of scientific article about soaking tortoises.

 

[Brian Perry]

Many, many years ago I read an article in the newsletter for the National Turtle and Tortoise Society (based out of Arizona), written by a well known at that time tortoise vet. His name was something like "Jartchow", but memory fails me. Anyway, he wrote in the article that tortoises absorb nutrients through the thin skin on their throat and around the cloaca, and that's why soaking in the diluted baby food was beneficial to tortoises that weren't eating. My friend Google told me a few years ago that the only turtle or tortoise that actually gets any water through the cloaca is one of the water turtles indigenous to Australia.

Too bad there isn't any money for science on turtles and tortoises. I'll bet @Will could find some sort of scientific article about soaking tortoises.

I understand that many people soak their tortoises, and I am not attempting to dissuade them. If they have a system that works, they should continue with it. For me, the risk outweighs the benefits. Also, I believe that the ingestion of greens with a high water content presents a direct and unambiguous method by which to achieve hydration. I was thinking that it might be interesting for someone with a scale to do the following:

1. Weigh a tortoise dry.
2. Soak the tortoise.
3. Allow the tortoise to dry for 30-60 minutes.
4. Weigh the tortoise again.

 

[Tom]

I understand that many people soak their tortoises, and I am not attempting to dissuade them. If they have a system that works, they should continue with it. For me, the risk outweighs the benefits. Also, I believe that the ingestion of greens with a high water content presents a direct and unambiguous method by which to achieve hydration. I was thinking that it might be interesting for someone with a scale to do the following:

1. Weigh a tortoise dry.
2. Soak the tortoise.
3. Allow the tortoise to dry for 30-60 minutes.
4. Weigh the tortoise again.

I've done that. Hatchlings gain a gram or two, even when they poop in the same soak and you're think they'd be losing weight. Brand new hatchlings straight out of the incubator also gain a gram or two in their first soak.

 

[Brian Perry]

I've done that. Hatchlings gain a gram or two, even when they poop in the same soak and you're think they'd be losing weight. Brand new hatchlings straight out of the incubator also gain a gram or two in their first soak.

These data do tend to indicate water absorption during soaking. That's interesting. Thanks, Tom.

 

[Tom]

If my animals are suffering, there is no manifestation of it. Many promote the value of soaking, yet all claims are based totally on anecdotal evidence. Have you or anyone else ever measured blood volume or interstitial fluid content following a soak? The skin of a tortoise is thick and impervious (but yes, I acknowledge there are thinner areas). How do advocates of soaking propose that water becomes internalized during soaking? I once had this discussion with the owner of a reptile vivarium and he spoke about small amounts of water perhaps entering the cloacal opening...really? It is true that in the wild tortoises can be observed sitting in pools of water. But this can easily be explained in terms of either thermoregulation or an attempt to remove ticks and external parasites.

I do agree that hydration is most important with hatchlings, due to their thinner skin and increased surface-to-volume ratio. In this particular case, wetting of the skin by soaking would probably blunt the loss of water. However, this same objective could probably be accomplished by either an increase in relative humidity and//or misting. IMO...the key value of soaking is that, on occasion, it provides both stimulation and an opportunity for a tortoise to drink. However, that is rarely observed. In captivity, tortoises are typically fed a diet with a much higher water content than that which would be available in the wild. Tortoises are built to conserve water. To hydrate them internally by feeding them crisp water-rich foods (such as romaine lettuce) rather than hoping that water somehow, magically, diffuses through the skin makes the most sense to me. But, I could be wrong.

You are wrong about this. Of course there is no scientific proof. Who pays to do scientific studies on any of these tortoise subjects? No one. Asking for this proof is no different than me asking you to show me the scientific proof that they don't take on water. Where is your study demonstrating your assertion? Let's move on from this since neither of us is going to have any sort of scientific proof.

On to the anecdotal proof. I don't know how many times you need to see something right in front of your own eyes before you see it as fact, but I'm good with 5-10 times. Maybe your standard is higher. How about 1000 times over a few years? Not enough for you? How about thousands of people all over the globe duplicating my methods and getting the same results? That enough anecdotal evidence for you?

Why don't you explain to all the people on this forum and out in the world why their dry started babies are dying of kidney failure, that it has nothing to do with soaking a baby. I've paid for multiple necropsies to figure this one out. Most of the breeders doing the dry starting also feed romaine heavily, so your solution doesn't seem to be working. Further, why don't you call all the people who buy from me, Austin and Lance and explain to them how all the daily soaks have nothing to do with their thriving babies, and that they don't magically absorb water in soaks.

Go find your favorite tortoise vet in an area where DTs occur and ask them how many bladder stones they've seen because people read the kind of stuff you are writing here and don't soak their tortoises. Tell that vet all about magical absorption and anecdotal evidence. Better yet, tell their client with the dead tortoise. Maybe they just should have fed more romaine lettuce.

I've done it your way. Did it that way for 2 decades before I learned better. Have you ever done it my way? I know what the difference is because I've done it both ways many times over many years, with many species. Put your money where your mouth is. Go buy a half dozen dry started babies and raise them your way. I will give you a half dozen of my correctly started babies, and you raise them my way. Then let's do weekly updates on growth, smoothness, health, vigor and appetite. You don't know how this experiment will end and what the conclusion will be. I do because I've lived this experiment for 3 decades.

If you want to not soak your tortoises and feed them a bunch of lettuce, that's fine. I think its a mistake, based on decades of experience and experimentation, but there is nothing I can do about it in your house for your tortoises. Coming on to a public tortoise forum and saying that water doesn't magically transfer, saying you think they will get eye infections or lung aspirations, and generally discouraging this life saving practice, is another matter entirely. I will not stand by and let your unfounded fears and incorrect assumptions harm tortoises. I have hundreds of little pieces of living evidence that refute your fantasies about infections, and magical water transfusions every single day.

We can't even have a respectable argument about this because you only understand half of the equation. Raise a few dozen tortoises with daily soaks, proper diet and housing, then come back and lets talk when we share some equal footing.