Hello to all. I have russian tortoise already for about 33 years. For about 6 or more years he has chronic kidney disease. Since september little by little he stopped urinating and later pooping at all. At vet hospital he started to poop and urinate every second - third day, so i took him back home. Vet told me, that there was stuck a lot food in his intestines and also his urine was pushing each other, so nothing could get out. Now, at home, i have him already for a week, but he only pooped once and urinated a little twice. His weight is growing again. His appetite is good, but i feed him only each third day. What i wanted to ask is, what can be the reason that he is not urinating as often, as he should or even stops doing it all at home? I didn't change anything in his living space for some time. Also i used to soak him up to 4 hours everyday in a warm water. I know, that soaking can't do no harm, but maybe 4 hours - it's too long and because of that he stopped urinating often? I was soaking him for so long, because he gets his eyes sunken even if humidity is about 35-40 in terrarium. Especially now, in winter. In summer i take him outside. I don't use substrate, because he tried to eat it. So i use underpads. Maybe someone has ideas, why my tortoise started to have such urinating problems at home?
Tortoise not urinating
- Thread starter er9m
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The_Four_Toed_Edward
Well-Known Member
Did the vet take x-rays? Let's see what @zovick thinks.
Did the vet take x-rays? Let's see what @zovick thinks.
Yes it did. The vet is best of the best. Tortoise had swallowed stone or a snail. But he has loosened it. The main question still remains, why he stops urinating?
Yes it did. The vet is best of the best. Tortoise had swallowed stone or a snail. But he has loosened it. The main question still remains, why he stops urinating?
How often do you soak him? What are the temperatures in his enclosure? What substrate are you using?
Please post pictures of enclosure and your tortoise. What is his name?
When a tortoise is having difficulties expelling poop or urine, it is therapeutic to soak much more often. The water MUST be lukewarm the entire time he is in it. For a normal soak the water should be as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. But for a constipated tortoise, find a can (like vegetables are sold in) that is large enough to completely support him with his legs hanging over the side the can where he can't touch the can. You want him to be "stuck on the post" of the can, unable to get off of it. Make the water high enough he can touch it but not be able to swim off of it. You want him to flail his legs a lot. That sort of movement massages his organs inside the shell, which helps to move the excrement out. Until he is having normal bowel movements, do this a couple times per day. Once he is back to normal you can drop the soaks down to once per day, and do normal soaks every other day or however you have been doing all these years.
If what the vet said is correct this should get both the urination and deification working again.
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Tortoises need to eat every day, just as you do. By feeding only every third day he is hungry, and this could cause him to eat substrate or whatever else is available, but that is not actually food. This would be why he is getting blocked, and why the vet said, "...stone or snail..." was inside blocking things. You need to feed him more often and regularly. If you think of his shell as a bowl, you should use that as a guide to the amount of greens and other food you feed each day - feed every day. If he leaves an amount or wastes an amount, then the next day offer that much less. But it should be offered each and every day.
Please post pictures of enclosure and your tortoise. What is his name?
When a tortoise is having difficulties expelling poop or urine, it is therapeutic to soak much more often. The water MUST be lukewarm the entire time he is in it. For a normal soak the water should be as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. But for a constipated tortoise, find a can (like vegetables are sold in) that is large enough to completely support him with his legs hanging over the side the can where he can't touch the can. You want him to be "stuck on the post" of the can, unable to get off of it. Make the water high enough he can touch it but not be able to swim off of it. You want him to flail his legs a lot. That sort of movement massages his organs inside the shell, which helps to move the excrement out. Until he is having normal bowel movements, do this a couple times per day. Once he is back to normal you can drop the soaks down to once per day, and do normal soaks every other day or however you have been doing all these years.
If what the vet said is correct this should get both the urination and deification working again.
.
Tortoises need to eat every day, just as you do. By feeding only every third day he is hungry, and this could cause him to eat substrate or whatever else is available, but that is not actually food. This would be why he is getting blocked, and why the vet said, "...stone or snail..." was inside blocking things. You need to feed him more often and regularly. If you think of his shell as a bowl, you should use that as a guide to the amount of greens and other food you feed each day - feed every day. If he leaves an amount or wastes an amount, then the next day offer that much less. But it should be offered each and every day.
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Yes, all that procedures i keep on doing, soak is happenning where his shell is coming together. Water is always lukewarm, as i always keep an eye of it. I would feed him every day, but the thing is that he hasn't so smooth intestine of his disease and food is gathering more quikcly than it is going out. That's the main reason of why he is like "constipated". I use also mineral oil, but this not really helping right now than before. What about temperatures in his terrarium it's about 20-21 C at night and about 31 under the basking spot at day. The temperature is the most struggling thing for me, because, if i maintain the needed temperature for him, than i have to soak him for that long. And where is the question repeating itself again: am i soaking him for too long?
Do you mean he isn't expelling visible urates? Because tortoises with healthy diets don't expel urates that often (that's the white stuff). He may still be peeing in the water, you wouldn't see that necessarily because it is clear.
Placing him in a bin and running the washer on spin cycle can help. Our vet has a literal vibrator she holds against a tortoise's shell to help them mobe their bowels.
Feeding aloe, opuntia cactus, and any other safe "wet" foods can help move things along internally.
Placing him in a bin and running the washer on spin cycle can help. Our vet has a literal vibrator she holds against a tortoise's shell to help them mobe their bowels.
Feeding aloe, opuntia cactus, and any other safe "wet" foods can help move things along internally.
Your temperatures seem a bit low. If he's not as healthy as he could be, he needs to be warmer. I think he needs 29-30 at least, rather than 21. @The_Four_Toed_Edward What do you think?
Try the vibration idea, or the moving his feet while perched on a can/ post. Feed the wetter items stated above in # 7 to lubricate his digestive tract. And warm him up. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.
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Try the vibration idea, or the moving his feet while perched on a can/ post. Feed the wetter items stated above in # 7 to lubricate his digestive tract. And warm him up. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.
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I bought a massage gun and do massage with him everyday for about 10-15 min, but somehow it isn't really helpfull. Also i put him on a washing machine, when it is on the highest revs. Thank you, COmtnLady for your support. You did answer, that any soaking isn't too much - this is what i wanted to hear. You know, it's like a ticking bomb, when he isn't urinating, because he's getting weight of his urine and that's no good. I'm not talking about passing urates. I'm about urine.
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The only other idea I have is to feed the tortoise lots of foods high in water content. In addition to those items mentioned in Post #7, cucumbers, green and yellow squash and romaine lettuce are all about 95% water.
The_Four_Toed_Edward
Well-Known Member
According to @Tom you should have temperatures of around 95 to 100 F right under the basking bulb. That is 35 c to 37 c. So yes, the basking temp sound too low.
For the day time ambient temps, aim for 25-31 c and for night time 20 to 23c.
Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
Do you have a photo of your set up by any chance?
Well, you have asked several times about "soak time's" 4 hours is unnecessary. While it should not hurt, 30 min a day should be sufficient. Additionally it might be hard to tell if he is urinating in the soak water. As mentioned above feed him wet foods, fresh Opuntia, cucumber, etc
Clarifying question: how do you know your tortoise is not urinating? If it is spending hours daily being soaked, it may be urinating multiple times during that time without you seeing it?
That's not the case, that i don't see his urine, because: i regulary change water and urine is not so clear, that i cannot see it, another thing, that he's getting puffy little by little, that's because urine and food is gathering inside him. This all also was showed by ultrasound and x-ray. Thanks about the food, i knew it, but it's not really effective right now as it was time ago. The main thing, that is worrying me right know, that somehow vet made him urinate and pooping. But when i took tortoise back at home, he stopped pooping again and urinating as frequent (much) as he did at vet, so what is the reason of that? What about his set up - there's nothing special. He has terrarium 90x45x45 cm (i know it's too small, but as i told before - it's only for winter). Also two bulbs - at the moment: one 150 Watt infrared basking lamp and another 80 Watt UVB/daylight. Also digital thermo/hygrometer at basking spot and a thermometer (stickers) on both ends of terrarium.
4 hours soaking it's because without it my tortoise is getting "dry". His eyes starts to look "sunken", but when i'm soaking him for so long under the lamp, he looks and feels great. 30 min. would be enough, if he is healthy. Or maybe i do something wrong, but i can't maintain needed temperature without "drying" him and soaking only for 30 min. Right now i don't soak him for 4 hours, one day i keep him for an hour - max 1,5 hour, another - even 30 min. as you say. He's looking quite good, but not so well, like after 4 hours.
When a tortoise doesn't feel well, when it isn't digesting and eliminating food well, they need it to be very warm to encourage their body to function well, You say he did well at the vet's, then you brought him home and he reverted to not pooping, right?
1. The temps in the chamber need to be warmer, bring them up to 34-35C and keep the whole enclosure that temperature all the time.
2. That size enclosure is too small. Tortoises need to be able to walk a lot so that the movement of muscles and tendons massages your tortoise's insides.
Because people can generate heat internally we tend to forget that reptiles get their body heat from lights (sitting in the sun or under a warming lamp), from warm water that they soak in, and other things in their environment. Tortoises can't eat, or poop, when they are cold - and they can not get warm unless they can absorb it from their chamber, from their environment. They go into "slow motion" when they are too cold or too dry. They can't poop, pee, or eat right when they are too cold and dry. Because we are holding them prisoner in a small box inside out houses, we must provide that heat and humidity for them. Without warmth and lots of moving around they can not digest food properly. Fix this now.
I'm concerned he may have a blockage. Your vet said she saw a stone or snail. You need to lubricate his digestive system to see if something can be dislodged.
Tell us exactly how you are getting mineral oil into him. How much, how often? What of the watery foods mentioned above are you offering, how much, how often? Do not give fruit as it kills off the beneficial bacteria that are helpful in digestion.
Get the temperatures inside his enclosure up to 35C and keep it there.
Get the humidity up to 84% or higher.
Soak him for 30-45 mins each day in warm water. Twice per day would be even better. Longer is better, but you must watch closely and be certain the water is warm the entire time he's in the soak. Most russians scramble around and act as though they don't want to be in the water. This is good, lots of exercise. Is yours trying to climb out when you soak him?
1. The temps in the chamber need to be warmer, bring them up to 34-35C and keep the whole enclosure that temperature all the time.
2. That size enclosure is too small. Tortoises need to be able to walk a lot so that the movement of muscles and tendons massages your tortoise's insides.
Because people can generate heat internally we tend to forget that reptiles get their body heat from lights (sitting in the sun or under a warming lamp), from warm water that they soak in, and other things in their environment. Tortoises can't eat, or poop, when they are cold - and they can not get warm unless they can absorb it from their chamber, from their environment. They go into "slow motion" when they are too cold or too dry. They can't poop, pee, or eat right when they are too cold and dry. Because we are holding them prisoner in a small box inside out houses, we must provide that heat and humidity for them. Without warmth and lots of moving around they can not digest food properly. Fix this now.
I'm concerned he may have a blockage. Your vet said she saw a stone or snail. You need to lubricate his digestive system to see if something can be dislodged.
Tell us exactly how you are getting mineral oil into him. How much, how often? What of the watery foods mentioned above are you offering, how much, how often? Do not give fruit as it kills off the beneficial bacteria that are helpful in digestion.
Get the temperatures inside his enclosure up to 35C and keep it there.
Get the humidity up to 84% or higher.
Soak him for 30-45 mins each day in warm water. Twice per day would be even better. Longer is better, but you must watch closely and be certain the water is warm the entire time he's in the soak. Most russians scramble around and act as though they don't want to be in the water. This is good, lots of exercise. Is yours trying to climb out when you soak him?
Yes. But his stomach was emptied if not to full, but near to it - certainly, so maybe now it takes time to poop him again. But such problem he had before visiting vet too. I try to keep his terrarium and environment as much warm, as it is possible. Then again, as i said before, if i increase temperature - humidity will drop to 32-30. I give him mostly cucumber of mentioned above. It can be one cucumber twice a week. No fruits. Only some zucchini. There's no blockage right now, as x-ray showed. I change doses of mineral oil during time. But it stays like from 0,5 ml. to 2 ml. each second day with some longer breaks. I give him it by syringe (without needle) to his mouth. Also i give him drink the same way. No, he is not scrambling, when soaking. It was earlier, now he likes it. I take him out of terrarium for a about an hour to walk and do exercise. Then he wants to go asleep, so i let him. But again, i haven't changed anything in his living space already for a long time. I wrote, that i have him for sooo long, and all these problems started about 4 months ago. So, again, why this all got started?
MissRisa
New Member
I don't think I've seen anyone suggest a heat mat to help temps without drying out so much. This may also help get the heat directly to his organs where he needs.
Good luck, and it's so sweet how hard you're trying for your tortoise.
Good luck, and it's so sweet how hard you're trying for your tortoise.
