Hello Everyone,
So, there was something I was wondering about.
I'm German, and when the Idea emerged of getting a tortoise I naturally looked for German information first - I got quickly discouraged getting one (until I found this Forum).
In Germany, generally, they advocate ONE right way to keep tortoises and if tortoises (mostly Testudo) are not kept this way, they will tell you that you're cruel to your animal.
So the welfare of tortoises require e.g. these standards:
- do NOT keep 1 animal alone. Even tortoise need a partner.
- an adult Testudo needs AT LEAST 10 square metres (107 square feet) of space
- you CAN'T keep your tortoise inside. It HAS TO BE outside all year round
- it HAS TO hibernate
- do NOT touch them, handle them as infrequently as possible
- I never read about force-soaking them
If I'd tell them that I currently keep my yearling star tortoise in a rubbermaid container, they'd probably stone me virtually.
I read of a hobby breeder, that said she wouldn't give her tortoise away, if the customer didn't have at least a 25 square meter (27 square feet) yard for the tortoise (Testudo). Some people in the forum said, you shouldn't let your own children handle the tortoise, because it would be too stressful for them.
While I welcome the effort to improve tortoise welfare, I don't like their idea of advocating the one right way to keep them, with no margin for different methods. I also don't like them judging and criticizing people that keep their tortoises differently (e.g. in a large terrarium).
Here in the Forum I encounter a totally different mentality - even if a new owner tells about how he feeds is tortoise only romaine, no one will criticize, just suggest nicely how to improve things. In German forums, as far as I have read, some members would answer with harsh criticism. Personally, if someone attacked me that way, I wouldn't take the advice at all.
I'm not bashing on Germans here. We're good people in general, but that's something I don't like. It does seem to be a cultural thing, because they are also specific "must meet" requirements for other animals around. I'm not sure about other (European) countries. I just wonder how they measure these "must meet" requirements. How can they say that a tortoise needs at least so-and-so much space?
It's actually pretty discouraging for a respective pet keeper: When I kept guinea pigs as a kid, and I loved them to death, I joined a forum to make sure they'd be happy. I could never meet the requirements, even though I build a large cage for them, the answer in the forum was still "no, that's too small" (after that, I never went online on that Fourm again). Also I almost can't keep any fish in my 20-gallon aquarium, because most fish "require" more space than that.
So, what I'm probably wondering is, if there are strong opinions like that in the US, UK or fellow TFO members?
And: Why are you people so "nice"? I mean, why is it that most of you are so "tolerant"? Or do some of you think that this forum is too tolerant?
I would be interested in your thoughts of this topic,
Mina
So, there was something I was wondering about.
I'm German, and when the Idea emerged of getting a tortoise I naturally looked for German information first - I got quickly discouraged getting one (until I found this Forum).
In Germany, generally, they advocate ONE right way to keep tortoises and if tortoises (mostly Testudo) are not kept this way, they will tell you that you're cruel to your animal.
So the welfare of tortoises require e.g. these standards:
- do NOT keep 1 animal alone. Even tortoise need a partner.
- an adult Testudo needs AT LEAST 10 square metres (107 square feet) of space
- you CAN'T keep your tortoise inside. It HAS TO BE outside all year round
- it HAS TO hibernate
- do NOT touch them, handle them as infrequently as possible
- I never read about force-soaking them
If I'd tell them that I currently keep my yearling star tortoise in a rubbermaid container, they'd probably stone me virtually.
I read of a hobby breeder, that said she wouldn't give her tortoise away, if the customer didn't have at least a 25 square meter (27 square feet) yard for the tortoise (Testudo). Some people in the forum said, you shouldn't let your own children handle the tortoise, because it would be too stressful for them.
While I welcome the effort to improve tortoise welfare, I don't like their idea of advocating the one right way to keep them, with no margin for different methods. I also don't like them judging and criticizing people that keep their tortoises differently (e.g. in a large terrarium).
Here in the Forum I encounter a totally different mentality - even if a new owner tells about how he feeds is tortoise only romaine, no one will criticize, just suggest nicely how to improve things. In German forums, as far as I have read, some members would answer with harsh criticism. Personally, if someone attacked me that way, I wouldn't take the advice at all.
I'm not bashing on Germans here. We're good people in general, but that's something I don't like. It does seem to be a cultural thing, because they are also specific "must meet" requirements for other animals around. I'm not sure about other (European) countries. I just wonder how they measure these "must meet" requirements. How can they say that a tortoise needs at least so-and-so much space?
It's actually pretty discouraging for a respective pet keeper: When I kept guinea pigs as a kid, and I loved them to death, I joined a forum to make sure they'd be happy. I could never meet the requirements, even though I build a large cage for them, the answer in the forum was still "no, that's too small" (after that, I never went online on that Fourm again). Also I almost can't keep any fish in my 20-gallon aquarium, because most fish "require" more space than that.
So, what I'm probably wondering is, if there are strong opinions like that in the US, UK or fellow TFO members?
And: Why are you people so "nice"? I mean, why is it that most of you are so "tolerant"? Or do some of you think that this forum is too tolerant?
I would be interested in your thoughts of this topic,
Mina