Tortoise ID Please

[LeeFJ]

Hi All,

As mentioned on my brief intro thread, I am from Australia. We have no tortoises native to this country and the keeping of them is restricted to suitably licenced exhibitors...zoos and wildlife parks.
This tortoise (hope I attached pic correctly) has been offered to me by a friend of a friend. I will not take it because keeping it illegally could put my turtle, dragon and skink collection in danger of confiscation. I did however offer to try and identify it for them so that it my help them with its care or so they can confidently offer it to an exhibitor.
My main concern is for it's wellbeing.

The story I have been told is.... it was transported here from overseas as a hatchie/juvi in the pocket of a man on an airplane who then kept it for about 46 years!
When he became too old to care for it he passed it on to a neighbour (who now has it) and told them it was from the Galapagos Islands!!
They have had it living in their chicken run for the last few years.

The story seems quite amazing and could be slightly tainted.....chinese whispers style , after so many years of being told.

I can believe it is quite aged and I can tell it's diet was perhaps too high in protien. I can assume it is not a tropical species because it has survived many winters outdoors in the temperate climate just north of Sydney.

I have three photos they have sent me but non of its plastron as I requested. They have also told me it is "dinner plate size"......I eat heaps of food off a big dinner plate! I assume that means about one foot carapace length.

I have looked at tortoise images till my eyes are popping out and have thought it might be a Yellow Footed Tortoise but I am not convinced.
What do you guys think?

Thanks for you time
Lee

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[bikerchicspain]

It looks like a dessert tort, but not sure, will need to see a pic of the plastron and it's bottom.

It's got a pyramid shell which could be through lack of calcium and or humidity, a high protein diet which speeds up the growth.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'm thinking Yvonne is tright about it being some variety of a desert tortoise...a 50-ish Galapagos tort would be quite a bit larger.

If it's been in Australia for nearly 50 years, why would the authorities care about it? Can't you get an exemption to keep it?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

It couldn't be a Gopherus or Testudo species, because it doesn't have a nuchal scute over its head - just two marginals like in the genera Geochelone and Chelonoidis. It has similar color to a sulcata, but the scale pattern on the forelimbs isn't right, and besides at 50 years of age it would weigh about 200 lbs. I suspect it's a Chaco tortoise (Chelonoidis chilensis) from South America:

 

[Kristina]

It couldn't be a Gopherus or Testudo species, because it doesn't have a nuchal scute over its head

Not necessarily true. Individuals occasionally do not have a nuchal when they are supposed to or have a nuchal when they are not supposed to. I have an adult male Home's Hingeback with no nuchal - most Home's have one. In fact it is one of the identifying characteristics that most people use to compare homeana to erosa. Erosa typically have no nuchal, while homeana do.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Interesting, but I think the head is still too narrow and the scales on the forelimbs a bit too robust to be a Gopherus sp. The carapace has some pyramiding, but the color reminds me more of a Chaco tortoise.

 

[Tom]

I'm pretty sure its a Chaco, Geochelone chilensis. They look similar to a sulcata like that one does, but the leg scales are different. They are also very prone to pyramiding. The state of the wild ones is a subject of much debate among the field scientists, but there are generally two recognized "types". If I remember correctly,the Northern one is bigger, around 11" for one that old does not seem unreasonable. They also come from the Mainland area adjacent to the Galapagos, so one would be likely to see one there on a trip to the Galapagos.

 

[Kristina]

Interesting, but I think the head is still too narrow and the scales on the forelimbs a bit too robust to be a Gopherus sp. The carapace has some pyramiding, but the color reminds me more of a Chaco tortoise.

I was not disagreeing with your conclusion, just stating that there are always exceptions to the norm

 

[DeanS]

Almost positive that it's a Chaco...almost

 

[LeeFJ]

Thanks for all your informative replies.

Yvonne, Dessert Tort sounds like something I would eat after dinner!! ha ha, I know what you mean though.

Terry, Our licencing authority is quite strict and doesn't really allow for any special cases such as this. The people who have it now said they have been advised that it would be euthanized if seized by the authority, crazy , I know...as if it's going to go and wreak havoc on our local wildlife!! Anyway, that's why they want someone like me to take it.
Sadly the old man who smuggled it here died about a year ago so I can't find out any more.

Kristina, the same is true with our freshwater turtles regarding the nuchal shield....when most of a particular species do have it, there are some who don't and vice-versa.

Thanks all of you for this help. I'll check out the images on this tortoise.
Are the Chaco's common in captivity? Do you guys know much about them or where accurate care info could be found?

Soon I'll be Australia's foremost tortoise authority with all this help!

Cheers
Lee

 

[dmmj]

chacos are not in abundance in capticity, mainly because they are hard to breed, and we have one or two keepers of chacos on here. I think evyptiandan just got one or two hatchlings last year after many years of trying. I have often heard of chacos looking like they are a mix of desert tortoises and sulcatas, which this one kind of does, sulcata shell without the leg spurs you see in sulcatas.

 

[jeffbens0n]

Amazing story! This tort seems like a real trooper! Chaco was my first guess as well, especially when you said they thought it was from the galopagos region.

 

[Kristina]

Chaco tortoises are actually the closest living relative to Galapagos tortoises. It is thought that perhaps Chacos or their forerunners were somehow washed into the ocean and out to the islands, and evolved in the Galapagos. An abundance of food and no natural predators allowed them to reach a colossal size. Then the tortoises spread from island to island either by swimming, being washed out or by whalers and pirates, forming the different ssp. of Galapagos tortoise.

 

[Laura]

i would like to see the pics, but it take minutes to open...
if its an endangered species,, it would be a shame to see it euth.
what about steve Irwins Zoo? could they take it? ship it out?

 

[LeeFJ]

G'day friends,

Yep, It's quite a trooper alright! I can't wait to get up to the place where it is kept to have good look at it...I think I'm falling in love with the thing and all I have is three photo's of it....kind of like internet dating!! hope I'm not disappointed when we meet in person!
Will try to get the owners to take a few more pics including some of the plastron.

Kristina, that's interesting about the relationship to the Galapagos Torts. We have them at most of our zoos and wildlife parks but they have a much smoother, less scaley skin than the Chaco Tortoise quite apart from the huge size difference. Could that also be a result of ideal climatic conditions on the islands? I do like the idea of them having been transported from mainland to island by pirates though.

Laura, the wildlife parks and zoos here are very cautious with any creature, reptile or otherwise that has not been bred by itself or another zoo. Steve's Australia Zoo is a long way from here but also seems to be moving slightly away from his original conservational ideals and becoming more of a big business concern. You may not get the same news stories that we get but the reports are not encouraging for us reptile enthusiasts. You might be able to read more if you search some of the news stories re Terri Irwin and Steve's dad Bob. Then again, news reports are not always overly factual I reckon.
Re, this tortoise...I don't think they would be intersted in it unless it was going to be a money spinner for them...sadly.

Late night down here and I'm sleepy, goodnight.
Lee

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, I'm gonna' go out on a limb here and disagree with all of you.

Its a sulcata! Not having received the proper care for its species, it doesn't look like what we're used to seeing.

 

[bikerchicspain]

Well, I'm gonna' go out on a limb here and disagree with all of you.

Its a sulcata! Not having received the proper care for its species, it doesn't look like what we're used to seeing.

I must admit that was my first impression, but then seeing how small it was for it's age, I disagreed with myself,
But if Yvonne says it's a sulcata then you can bet your bottom dollar that it is.

 

[LeeFJ]

Hi Yvonne's!
That's interesting. When I can get some more photos it might help us with a definite id.
Thanks again
Lee

 

[matt41gb]

Yeah, I'm reading these post and wondering why nobody is saying sulcata. That's exactly what it is, no question about it.

-Matt

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I said it's a Sulcata and my post has disappeared. The one freakin time I'm right and somebody deleted my post! Heck!

I said it was a Sulcata on the 28th...what happened to my post?