Too many sulcata's?

[Livingstone]

Im just alarmed that there are threads with people trying to sell off their over stock of baby sulcatas.

I think this is a sign that production has exceeded demand. I hope that the people selling them do not default on their responsability as breeders by compromising the safety and health of a baby tortoise.

Thank you.

 

[Missy]

Ouch, tell us how you really feel. LOL. I hope you are ready for the can you opened. I don't disagree at least in my part of the country there is way to many being bread but from what I have heard on here other parts of the country they are kinda hard to get. The prices do seem to reflect your point though, $70 for a Sulcata that is crazy cheap. It would be nice if care and fact sheets were gone over and given out to people thinking of getting one. Some people have know idea what they are getting. I do think there are a lot of good breeders that do their best. But there are the ones just out to make a buck and ruin it for the good ones. Touchy subject though.

 

[Tom]

I'm failing to see why you are alarmed by people selling tortoises in the "For Sale" section of a tortoise forum in the middle of the time of year when they are typically sold. Most sulcatas hatch in the Springtime and most people want to start them for a month or two before selling.

I'm sure you won't see as many hatchlings for sale in December and January. Will you then be alarmed the demand has exceeded supply?

I agree with you in your hope that all people behave responsibly when it comes to their baby tortoises.

 

[Livingstone]

I'm failing to see why you are alarmed by people selling tortoises in the "For Sale" section of a tortoise forum in the middle of the time of year when they are typically sold. Most sulcatas hatch in the Springtime and most people want to start them for a month or two before selling.

Not alarmed at where the posts are, or the time of year.

I'm sure you won't see as many hatchlings for sale in December and January. Will you then be alarmed the demand has exceeded supply?

No, happy because it means that any would-be owner will have to think twice about buying the third largest tortoise species in the world.

I agree with you in your hope that all people behave responsibly when it comes to their baby tortoises.

Thanks

---

This is the wrong economy to have the largest tortoises being sold the cheapest, since they require the most expense in terms of upkeep and space. Almost anybody can afford the $70 baby, but they probably cant afford the half acre plus single family home which the tortoise would need once it reaches adult size, or the wherewithall to build a suitable outdoor structure to keep it healthy and alive when the temps drop below 60 degrees.

Its a self perpetuating problem.

Thats what Im saying.

Would you consider it a problem if galap babies went for $70.00 a pop?

 

[spikethebest]

I agree 100000% with Tom.

 

[Yvonne G]

I have to admit, when I see baby sulcatas going for super cheap prices, it reinforces my belief that there are too many for the demand.

 

[motero]

$25 baby sulcatas in phoenix.

 

[Tom]

Guys, what makes you think $70 dollars is cheap? That's wholesale cost. Retail is still $100-150 around here in Southern CA. I was paying $75-100 for them in 1991. If somebody is selling them for $25 dollars in Pheonix, its because they just wants to get rid of them fast.

Livingstone, I am also a huge proponent of tortoises having huge spaces to roam, but a sulcata can do just fine and be quite happy in a significantly smaller space than a half acre. That's just not realistic. And as far as the economy and expense: There are a million points I could make about this, but here are the main two. 1. Tortoises (even big ones) are MUCH cheaper to house and maintain than most other animals. 2. I think people ought to be given the benefit of the doubt that they will take proper care of their new pet, regardless of the economy. There will always be dummies out there, but that has nothing to do with the majority of pet owners taking proper care of their animals.

I would be thrilled if I could find Galop babies for $70 a pop. I would have a bunch of them. And no, I would not consider this a problem. I can buy as many pigs as I want, that will very quickly reach 500-1000 pounds, for $25 all day long. I can buy young steers for around $75 a head too. I don't see a rash of giant pigs or steers overflowing the shelters even though people can buy them so cheaply and they are adorable as babies too. People have the sense not to buy one for their apartment. I think most people understand what they are buying when they buy a sulcata (or a pig, for that matter). When people buy one impulsively and ignorantly, it just means somebody like me will end up with a free one down the road. Same thing happens with the occasional pig, goat, horse, fish tank, ostrich, emu, dog, cat, etc...

 

[Livingstone]

Guys, what makes you think $70 dollars is cheap? That's wholesale cost. Retail is still $100-150 around here in Southern CA. I was paying $75-100 for them in 1991. If somebody is selling them for $25 dollars in Pheonix, its because they just wants to get rid of them fast.

You are putting a value on life when you sell it. If you lost $25 would you sweat it? What about $400? Price is what makes people think twice.

Livingstone, I am also a huge proponent of tortoises having huge spaces to roam, but a sulcata can do just fine and be quite happy in a significantly smaller space than a half acre. That's just not realistic. And as far as the economy and expense: There are a million points I could make about this, but here are the main two. 1. Tortoises (even big ones) are MUCH cheaper to house and maintain than most other animals. 2. I think people ought to be given the benefit of the doubt that they will take proper care of their new pet, regardless of the economy. There will always be dummies out there, but that has nothing to do with the majority of pet owners taking proper care of their animals.

True and true.

I would be thrilled if I could find Galop babies for $70 a pop. I would have a bunch of them. And no, I would not consider this a problem. I can buy as many pigs as I want, that will very quickly reach 500-1000 pounds, for $25 all day long. I can buy young steers for around $75 a head too. I don't see a rash of giant pigs or steers overflowing the shelters even though people can buy them so cheaply and they are adorable as babies too. People have the sense not to buy one for their apartment. I think most people understand what they are buying when they buy a sulcata (or a pig, for that matter). When people buy one impulsively and ignorantly, it just means somebody like me will end up with a free one down the road. Same thing happens with the occasional pig, goat, horse, fish tank, ostrich, emu, dog, cat, etc...

Livestock is not the same. You can eat pigs and steers, and they dont live as long as a tortoise.

Further more you are coming at this from the perspective of someone who has land, not someone who reads the for sale section sitting in their two bedroom, two bathroom apartment. Where you live and where UPS will ship to are two different matters.

Dont use yourself as the example, if everybody was like you then I wouldn't have bothered posting this.

 

[Tom]

I think I am great example though. I was living in a two bedroom house, with the folks, with a tiny backyard when I got my first sulcata. From there, me and my sulcata moved into a small Apt, with a couple of room mates and NO yard. I had to sun him on the little patio area.

The point is, I was a responsible tortoise owner before I had land or a big back yard. And I believe most other people are/will be too. I know at least a couple dozen people who responsibly own sulcatas and only three of us have anything larger than a typical house and yard.

Believe me, I worked in the retail pet trade for 8 years. I've seen the worst of the worst. I hear what you are saying. I'm just trying to get across the point that the VAST MAJORITY of people will do the right thing. AND there is nothing anyone can do about the few bad apples that will always exist.

BTW, I don't eat my livestock. I train them and use them until they die of old age.

 

[Albinoboidsetc]

To imply that an animal costing more means that it is going to be taken better care of then a "cheap" animal is quite wrong in my opinion. I have seen people take great care of a $25 gecko, while they have a $1200 horse starving to death and standing in filth. It really all comes down to the individual people involved. The breeders need to do everything they can to inform the people who are buying the animals from them and the people buying the animals need to provide the best care that they can, and if they can't provide the proper care then they need to find someone who can. I was given my Tortoises and have done everything I can to start taking proper care of them the best way possible, and I have as much love for them and am just as worried about their care as I am for birds and snakes I own that I have paid $1000+ for.

PS technically you could eat a tortoise, I'm sure some people in the world do. I wouldn't eat one, but I also know people who wouldn't eat a pig.

 

[dmmj]

well anu animal bought on impulse is usually a bad idea. Don't get me wrong I have done it, usually with horrible results.

 

[TORTOMANIA]

Im just alarmed that there are threads with people trying to sell off their over stock of baby sulcatas.

I think this is a sign that production has exceeded demand. I hope that the people selling them do not default on their responsability as breeders by compromising the safety and health of a baby tortoise.

Thank you.

I dont think that the people selling the tortoises deserve the blame for the problems discuss on threads like these.
I've sold alot of tortoises to alot of different kinds of people, and even if you inform them properly that doesnt mean they are going to listen to you. when your selling animals you have to have a bit of faith in people, because you can't get to know everyone personally, and where they live, and how much space they have, and how sanitary they are etc... i have no right to judge these people on whether or not they should or shouldn't own a tortoise. i don't hear anyone bashing pet store owners who mark up over %100 and sell to anyone who walks through their door.
Small non-business enthusiast breeders are the best thing for the hobby, because they are dedicated to the care and spread of the hobby, plus they generally offer better quality animals than pet stores, at much cheaper prices, so maybe that person who never got involved in keeping tortoises because they did'nt have $175 for a sulcata, would have pursued it if one was offered at $70
When i got my first tortoise (a baby redfoot) i really didnt know much about them, and a lot of you would have said i shouldnt be getting one just because i thought they were cool. Now i own over 20 tortoises, and am involved in species preservation, but you have to hope that the people you sell to even if they are not well experienced will evolve into this rewarding hobby
This is the payoff end as opose to all those people who neglect their tortoises,
the breeders are last people who should be taking any heat from everyone here that has bought a tortoise,
we are not talking about a puppy mill
a classified add is what it is, simple and to the point.
I do agree there is an overstock of sulcatas right now, and it does drive the price down, but it is seasonal.

I dont think you should be alarmed, you should be happy there is people out there involved enough to breed these creature, after all it's not simple and cheap like LETTING hamsters breed.
As far as responsibility goes, this falls upon the new owner. The fact that this person has the drive and determination to seek out and pay $70 for an animal tells me they want to take care of it. no one pays for an animal with intent to mistreat it.
It is no one's place to judge people on whether they should or should'nt have a tortoise, unless you witness them mistreating the animals outright.

 

[Livingstone]

I'm convinced.

Clearly this is not a problem, good to know.

Thanks.

 

[dmmj]

Hey tom if you find any 70$ galaps, let me know.

 

[DeanS]

If Tom finds any $70 Galaps, he's going into the Galap business...with me