To deworm or not to deworm

[biochemnerd808]

So, after my experience with Mo (one of my rescues), who was TERRIBLY infested with worms, I realize that I am probably biased towards treating.

Keeping this in mind, I would like to put a little poll out there: Should I de-worm my two new tortoises (Jill and Mila) 'just to be on the safe side' before introducing them to the others (in a few months) when they appear very healthy, their feces are normal, activity is good?

It seems like probably I shouldn't. We had some other unexpected vet expenses recently, so we can't have a fecal run for another few months... so I won't know if any worm eggs are present.
With Mo the worms were visible with the naked eye, but I know that even a tortoise that is not 'shedding' any worms may have some in her gut. Some say that this is normal, others say that all 'new' tortoises should be treated.

Jill and Mila were well taken care of in their previous home - they were in an aquarium that was a bit on the small side, but they got good food, good UV, and were soaked regularly.

What do you think?

 

[wellington]

My personal opinion is this. Do not treat an animal with chemicals/drugs unless they actually have something that needs treating. Now, if you can get your hands on some pumpkin, grind up the skin, seeds and meat in to a smooth mixture and feed that to them, well that will work as natural dewormer.

 

[Laura]

how much does the vet charge just to do a fecal?
do you know if the previous owner ever wormed them/ ?

 

[biochemnerd808]

Our vet charges $63 per fecal per animal (she doesn't require an office visit). Her prices are reasonable for all other things, so I was surprised it was so much. She is very knowledgeable of reptiles though, she also treated our chameleon, and was recommended to me by multiple reptile owners.
The previous owner had her torts checked up by a vet when she first got them, but she didn't mention whether she had a fecal run, so I will assume she didn't. She is now on the road for 3 months, so I can't ask her, either... I sent her an email, but haven't heard back. She had the tortoises for 4 years.

how much does the vet charge just to do a fecal?
do you know if the previous owner ever wormed them/ ?

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I actually did exactly that (giving them ground up pumpkin) within the first week after I got them. I saw no worms in their stool after that - although it did make them poop a lot!

My personal opinion is this. Do not treat an animal with chemicals/drugs unless they actually have something that needs treating. Now, if you can get your hands on some pumpkin, grind up the skin, seeds and meat in to a smooth mixture and feed that to them, well that will work as natural dewormer.

 

[tickle]

If you feed pumpkin. Pumkin seeds also and let some germanate to seedlings wich are the most potent.twice a week for a month or two they wont be all gone but safely under control.there are severe casesthat still need a vet visit

 

[lynnedit]

Sounds like they are very healthy, and if you only had the two new torts, you wouldn't have to treat.
But if you know your other torts are clear, I can see why you wouldn't want to mix them w/o knowing.
How long will you keep them separate? If you still plan to keep them separate for a bit longer, for example, then when funds are back, you could do a fecal on one tort only. If positive/high load, then treat both. If negative, off they go!

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Or have you mixed them already, in which case, you might just want to monitor them all.

 

[Yvonne G]

It is my gut feeling that because they were kept in a small aquarium, they probably are infested with parasites.

I don't usually add new tortoises to my existing groups, but if I ever do, I would always de-worm them before I added them. Plus, I would have both groups (the new and the existing) tested to be sure neither group were going to infect the other. That's one of the reasons for quarantine.

I'm sorry to say, but having animals of any kind may some day cost you some money for vet bills. This is just a fact of life...same way with having children.

 

[Talka]

De-worm before mixing with healthy torts, or they will all have worms and you'll end up paying hundreds in fecal tests.
There are also worms that are too small to see without a microscope. I thought my tort's poo looked normal until I saw the microscope slide at the vet's lab. Tiny little pinworm babies, dozens of them, floating around.

If you keep them separate, and they have an OK weight and are eating, I wouldn't worry about deworming. My tort had worms for several months and made it out just fine. My vet pointed out that "things happen slowly in reptiles." It takes a while for something to become serious.

My gut tells me to keep them separate from the healthy ones and to get a fecal once the money is there. In the meantime, pumpkin sounds good. Get some organic canned pumpkin, should be about $3 for a good size can.

 

[TylerStewart]

I would start calling around for other vets and get some more options on a fecal check price.... My vet is something like $20 to do them, and was that price long before I was a "regular" to her. I know of another vet here that is about $25 for them. For a fecal check, you don't really need a reptile specialist. They do other animals fecal checks the same way.

I'm not personally against "shotgun" treating them (treating them assuming that they have parasites, even if they might not). When we get groups of imported tortoises, we at least shotgun treat them all for the major parasites that they typically come in with. It's cheaper and faster in hours spent to just treat them all than it is to run fecal checks on them all. I don't think there's any damage from the drugs required as long as it's done correctly. Panacur and Flagyl will knock out all the common stuff.

They'll likely pick up parasites down the road regardless (outdoor tortoises often do), but you might as well start them off as lean as possible on worms.

 

[biochemnerd808]

Thank you all for your input. So far the quarantine has only been 3 weeks, and I plan to keep them separate for at least 2-4 months (aiming for 6 months, but we'll see how my self control is!).

My existing group (Timmy the female and Roz the male) has been treated w/ 2 doses of panacur (fenbendazole) 10 days apart, several months ago. I did that at the same time as Mo's first round of treatment. Mo now lives with my friend.

@emysemys, I fully realize that my torts will eventually cost me more vet bills, and I'm totally ok with that (comes with the territory!). They will be my pets for the rest of my life, so if they ever get sick, I WILL treat them. We had an abscess removed from our foster chameleon, and between that and the month of chameleon antibiotics, that ended up being not cheap, and then our heat pump broke and needed fixing. So for something non-urgent as a fecal (especially since the quarantine will last for a few more months), we decided to wait. Obviously if my new tortoises showed sign of illness, I'd take them in right away!

Good idea @TylerStewart. I'll check w/ some other vets about the cost of a fecal.

It is my gut feeling that because they were kept in a small aquarium, they probably are infested with parasites.

I don't usually add new tortoises to my existing groups, but if I ever do, I would always de-worm them before I added them. Plus, I would have both groups (the new and the existing) tested to be sure neither group were going to infect the other. That's one of the reasons for quarantine.

I'm sorry to say, but having animals of any kind may some day cost you some money for vet bills. This is just a fact of life...same way with having children.