The End Of Pyramiding

[Tom]

I have too many babies to sit there and put a little napkin on each one during the soak, plus they would pull them off of each other while they were crawling around in the soak. So here's another alternative. Soak them in a shoe box. Get their carapace's wet and then keep the lid on the box during the soak. Mine don't dry off this way even during a long soak.

 

[Sammy]

Hi Tom,

Close the lid completely? Give them a sauna

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

how do you keep the water from getting cold ? When you say long i assume you mean around an hour... thats how long I soak

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

Close the lid completely? Give them a sauna

Yes. There is plenty of air in there since none of those lids are air tight, and this eliminates evaporation. Keeps the water warmer longer too.

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how do you keep the water from getting cold ? When you say long i assume you mean around an hour... thats how long I soak

This is usually not an issue for me since my reptile room is always 80-85, but I have used heating pads, sunshine through a window (very carefully on this one), heat lamps and the plain old "just dump some out and add more warm water" method too.

 

[marcy4hope]

so how do your two guys look now tom? would love to see new photos.

 

[Tom]

Way back on page 32, post number 472, I did an update. They look about the same as that only a little bigger now. I'll do some more updates soon.

 

[wellington]

Now you no by now, I fully trust and believe the knowledge you have, the way you raise your torts and that I am trying to do the same with my leopard. But if you are going to tell me that your torts drink from water bottles, well, I give up. I could never even begin to know how to do that.
They look great Tom, and i love the enclosure they are in. Did you ever get any plants to live in that area without being fried

 

[Kristina]

My tortoises insist on drinking only Swiss water from champagne glasses

 

[dmmj]

Evian for mine

 

[Tom]

Now you no by now, I fully trust and believe the knowledge you have, the way you raise your torts and that I am trying to do the same with my leopard. But if you are going to tell me that your torts drink from water bottles, well, I give up. I could never even begin to know how to do that.
They look great Tom, and i love the enclosure they are in. Did you ever get any plants to live in that area without being fried

Because the picture is so many pages back, it took me a minute to figure out what the heck you were talking about... Hahaha.

Their whole pen is full of nice green grass and weeds right now. It always sprouts nicely in the winter. I'll get a pic up as soon as I get a chance...

 

[Tom]

UPDATE: Here are some pics I took today. Last time I weighed them Trey was around 1100 grams and Tuck was around 1400. They continue to do well and they are outside for at least a little while almost every day. In the next few weeks they will move outside permanently.

 

[Connie]

UPDATE: Here are some pics I took today. Last time I weighed them Trey was around 1100 grams and Tuck was around 1400. They continue to do well and they are outside for at least a little while almost every day. In the next few weeks they will move outside permanently.

Very NICE looking tortises!!!

 

[Tom]

Very NICE looking tortises!!!

Thank you Connie.

 

[kbaker]

My tortoises insist on drinking only Swiss water from champagne glasses

That's because I told them not to make it easy for their new mother!!

 

[luvmysulcata]

I thought a lot about what to name this thread. I intend for it to go on for several years, so I had to pick something fitting. So be careful how you reply to this thread, as it will be read by many for a long time to come.

One way or another, the following will be one more nail in the coffin for pyramiding in our captive raised tortoises. Either these babies will grow smooth or they won't. If they do grow smooth then we will all know that humidity and hydration is the key. If they don't grow smooth, then we will know that there is more to it than just humidity and hydration and further experimentation will be necessary. It is my goal to end pyramiding forever. Credit must be given to Richard Fife as the one who put this idea in my head. This is his discovery. I'm only testing his theory here, in public view.

I will post pics here of all milestones and at least monthly, so that everyone can watch their growth. I'll use the same scale and tape measure on the same counter to keep it all consistent.

I'll be raising these new babies the same way, with the same diet, the same set-up, same temps, in the same room, on the same ranch, with the same outdoor sunning enclosures, the same supplements in the same quantities, as their parents, my older, pyramided ones. The only thing different will be humidity and hydration. They'll get daily warm water soaks, frequent carapace mistings, damp substrate, humid hide boxes and drinking water always available. Outdoors, their sunning/exercise enclosures will get a thorough wet down each time I put them in there.

This is Mr. Man. Pipped on 5-15-2010. He's still in the brood box absorbing the remainder of his yolk sac.
My digital caliper decided to stop working despite battery replacement so I'm having to estimate length using a tape measure. He's right around 5cm and 35 grams.

This is Dimple. He started trying to bust out of his shell on 5-12-2010. I helped him get through the leathery inner membrane on 5-14-2010 and he stuck his head out on 5-16-2010. He's also 5cm, but only 32 grams. He's much less active than Mr. Man at this point. He's also still absorbing his yolk sack.

Here they are together in the brood box with the lid removed. Room temp is 80-85. Their enclosure is ready for them, I'm just waiting for them to absorb the rest of their yolk sacks and start eating.

Beautiful!! smooth shells!

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Hello everyone, I'm a new member, I found this forum through google searches about tortoises and it's helped us alot. This thread especially has caught my interest and I have a question for everyone. I've never had tortoises before and I now have 3 baby sulcata, I plan on choosing 1 and eventually adopting out the other 2. I have no information about them from before they've been with me but I believe they're only a few months old. I'm wondering if any of you can tell if their carapaces are pyramiding?

Thanx so much!
Alyssa

Hello Alyssa and welcome.

All three of them look good no pyramiding, smooth as they should be..

How old are yours and how much do they weigh? Mine weighs 61 grams and the guy i got her from says shes a year old how much is a year old supposed to weigh do you know?

 

[Tom]

At a year old they should be somewhere between 500 and 1000 grams.

 

[Texastravis]

Nice thread. I read the first couple pages and looked at pics inbetween and I am not suprised at all by the results. The whole notion of "controlling growth" for pyramiding prevention is a crock of old ideology. Humidiy is without a doubt the answer. I have 2 redfoots who are terribly pyramided and they were slow grown good diet under low humidy conditions.

Couple Aldabras I picked up as babies had already noticable pyramiding, the distributor kept them on hay. Now after being in my care for over a year on wet cypress mulch and frequent sprays, the tortoises have packed on about 3 inches of smooth growth.

I wish this test would have had 4 tortoises: 2 with identical high humidty but different diets and 2 with low humidy and different diets. The difference in diets would be total protein intake. That would definately put an end to the arguement.

 

[jasmine_1234321]

Actually the prettiest torts I've seen !
Xxxx

 

[Tom]

Nice thread. I read the first couple pages and looked at pics inbetween and I am not suprised at all by the results. The whole notion of "controlling growth" for pyramiding prevention is a crock of old ideology. Humidiy is without a doubt the answer. I have 2 redfoots who are terribly pyramided and they were slow grown good diet under low humidy conditions.

Couple Aldabras I picked up as babies had already noticable pyramiding, the distributor kept them on hay. Now after being in my care for over a year on wet cypress mulch and frequent sprays, the tortoises have packed on about 3 inches of smooth growth.

I wish this test would have had 4 tortoises: 2 with identical high humidty but different diets and 2 with low humidy and different diets. The difference in diets would be total protein intake. That would definately put an end to the arguement.

TexasTravis, there are many people who still disagree with you. I am not one of them.

Farther into the thread somewhere, I explain that my current adults were raised just as you say you wish I had currently done. They were raised in the same pens on the same ranch with the same foods, etc... The only difference was wet vs. dry. Well you've seen the results on these new "wet routine" babies, but my adult males are 14 years old somewhat pyramided and only around 60 pounds. I tried the slow growth idea and it resulted in small stunted tortoises that still pyramided because it was too dry. Meanwhile we have a few leopards and sulcatas here on the forum that are growing like a bad weed, but totally smooth because they are hydrated and kept humid.

The evidence is just overwhelming now...

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Actually the prettiest torts I've seen !
Xxxx

Thank you.

 

[manuetaaz]

Great thread, thank you for sharing! I have 2 young hermanns and trying to do the same, although probably not as wet. Mistings several times a day, humidity around 60% and basking light on top of their water and humid hide. They are now around 5 months+ so we'll see how it goes. My older hermann is pyramided even though he was fed weeds only with the usual calcium-vitamins supplements (They all came to me relatively smooth at 3 months old).
We'll see how it goes...