The dreaded Herpes.....

[Kristin'sTortie]

Took my Russian to the vet. Background info is I've had him 16 years. He was out with us in the yard and somehow got away from me. Long story short, he was gone for 2 months and we found him about 6 days ago. He has been unable to eat (tried but couldn't swallow) and had his beak all misshapen. Beak was trimmed and vet suspects bacterial illness and viral Herpes. I have to give him antibiotic shots every 3 days for 2 weeks. He said to "watch and wait" on the Herpes. Question I have is....should I email him and ask about antivirals? Any food I can maybe get him to eat? I feel like he's so skinny from basically hibernating for 2 months and now being sick? Help!

 

[CathyNed]

Hi Kristin, Can you blend the food to make it easier to swallow? People here have recommended daily soaks with reptoboost which is an electrolyte soak and some have even bathed torts in baby food mixtre or soup mixture. I had to tube feed my russian critcal care when he lost a lot of weight but if your poor torts beak is injured it might be hard/painful to open his mouth. I hope someone with more experience chimes in.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Thank you for your reply. I've been soaking some tortoise food that I normally never feed him (it was recommended that they like the smell and it can be made soft). He tried to eat it, but seems to not be able to swallow. The vet mentioned baby food, but I'm unsure what (veggies, fruits) and how. From reading about the boost stuff you mentioned, it seems he should be on it because of the antibiotics too. He seems to feel worse after the vet visit. Poor guy. He's a mess. He's never had one single issue in the 16 years I've had him. It's so hard to see him just laying there.

 

[Sara G.]

If you do feed baby food, I wouldn't go for any fruit blend. Stick to veggies.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Do I try to put it in his mouth or how do I get in him? I feel bad as he was trying to eat a little, but hasn't for a day or two. He just kinda sets the food in his mouth and drools. He's pretty miserable. I was going to see if I couid find some type of vegetable purée. Less sugar than store bought.

 

[Sara G.]

I don't know much of anything when it comes to force feeding torts.
I think @YvonneG has had some experience with it though.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

First, thank you to the people who have responded to my previous posts.
I have a Russian who is slowly wasting away from Herpes. I've tried some syringe feeding to not avail. He's lost so much weight that his skin is literally sagging (he use to be a pretty beefy guy). I'm soaking him, but is there anything else I can do to try and get him to eat. Tube feed him? Vet has me giving him antibiotic shots, which I've read can affect his appetite even more. Prior to the first shot he was actually attempting to eat. Now he won't at all. Is there anyone who has experienced a Herpes diagnosis?

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

What are the antibiotics for? Tube feeding may be your only course of action here. The vet should install a feed line to the stomach.

 

[Yvonne G]

I agree with Sarah. The vet can install a feeding tube surgically, but in the meantime, here's a good article on how to treat a sick tortoise:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/nursing.html

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

The vet seemed to think a feeding tube would not help....not sure if he was also aware that I couidnt afford a large vet bill and knew a surgical intervention would be costly. ?? The antibiotics are for a suspected bacterial infection since he was in the elements for two months.

 

[Pearly]

So sorry to hear your tort is sick. I'm fairly new to tort keeping (almost 12 months with 2 baby RF's) but have had some issues to overcome with feeding in the first months, so perhaps my 2 cents may help you in some way. If your tort has primary herpes, he is VERY MISEARBLE! I only have had that experience with human babies. My both twin boys had had herpes simplex (the "cold sore type") primary and their whole inside if the mouth, tongue, gums, throat were one big ulcer. They had high fever, wouldn't nurse, this was probably their worst childhood viral illness. As for antiviral meds, remember that like antibiotics those too have side effects. Many of them are nausea/vomiting/diarrhea... Without antiviral meds the virus runs it's course. Not sure which is worse. Anyway, the main thing for your tort is to be kept warm (like 85F) and humid now. Provide hydration in any way possible including humid environment. Soak, soak,soak! I think your tort species does not eat fruit, so no sugary stuff. Whatever diet items that are good for him are most loaded with nutrients, see if you can put them in the blender, add some tort vitamins, see if you can get Critical Care (think it by Oxbow). I'd try to trickle some of that liquified potion deep inside his mouth (on the side, close to the cheek) with small syringe. They sell those with soft ling tip in drug stores at baby section. That's how I kept my babies hydrated (2-3ml of water every 5-10 min all night long!). I've heard keepers use Pedialyte, but not sure about sugar content. Also soaks with Gerber baby food carrot (bcs of vit A). As far as baby foods, they have all kinds: peas, sweet potato, green beans, spinach, squash, but again I don't know the constrains of your tort's diet. Hang in there. Keep him warm, humid, keep soaking, keep trying to hydrate/feed liquified food... Give him tlc... And don't give up! If it's primary herpes, the lesions will start healing in few days, just give him supportive care to get him over the hump. One more thing. The antibiotic will wipe out his gut flora. See about doing some probiotic to help him along

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Thank you so much! I'm soaking him like crazy and have been doing baby carrot food soaks too. Funny thing is after I got about 3 mm of liquid food in him, he actually walked around in his enclosure for a few minutes. He's so emancipated that I'm not sure he's going to make it long enough to let the virus run its course, but I'm hoping. I've had him for 16 years and he's never gotten away from me. To have him hibernate (for the first time) and be out in the elements for 2 months, then to finally be found and have him be so sick, is heartbreaking. My entire town is rooting for him as I posted on our local Facebook page when he disappeared. Hoping he pulls through. He's usualky incredibly active. He's been a classroom pet for so long that he still perks up and looks around anytime he hears kids.
Again, thank you. I'm ordering the Critical Care today.

 

[Meganolvt]

Tube feeding Critical Care is actually pretty simple. If your vet can give you a 5 french or 8 french red rubber urethral catheter you can pass it and syringe food right into the stomach. I have to do it on baby ball pythons all the time. If you can catch the torts head and hold behind the jaw you should be able to pass a tube. There is always a danger of getting the tube in the trachea, but it is hard to do in most species.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Thank you for your response. I've been thinking that same thing. I think the vet was reluctant to do any tube or force feeding out of fear that he was in some sort of kidney failure from being so sick. At this point I am pretty willing to try anything as he's just slowly going down hill.
I made a recipe today that he seemed to tolerate better. Some tort food soaked with water and mustard greens blended to a liquid in my blender. Then syringed it in the side of his mouth. Got about 1.5 ml in him. He is so skinny. He still has the energy to fight me, but that's about it. He can't even hold his head up and basks in his enclosure with his neck out laying on the floor. He's always been a voracious eater. Often eating three bowls of fresh greens in 10 minutes. When he was at my school not a day went by when kids didn't drop at least one large dandelion flower in his dish. He'd immediateky wake up, walk briskly over and eat it. Drank every time he was soaked and required several poop scoops a day. Boy what I woukdnt give to scoop up his poop now. . I've taken pitty on him and allowed him to just have play sand in his enclosure. He hates any kind of moist or otherwise wet substrate. Have tried many different substrate combos and he always, without fail finds the one tiny spot with sand and camps out there until I eventually slowly add more sand. Not sure if it's the warmth or what, but he's always been attracted to it during the 16 years I've had him. At this point I'd send him to Hawaii if it would help him.

 

[Pearly]

How's your sick tortie doing?

 

[CathyNed]

Thank you for your response. I've been thinking that same thing. I think the vet was reluctant to do any tube or force feeding out of fear that he was in some sort of kidney failure from being so sick. At this point I am pretty willing to try anything as he's just slowly going down hill.
I made a recipe today that he seemed to tolerate better. Some tort food soaked with water and mustard greens blended to a liquid in my blender. Then syringed it in the side of his mouth. Got about 1.5 ml in him. He is so skinny. He still has the energy to fight me, but that's about it. He can't even hold his head up and basks in his enclosure with his neck out laying on the floor. He's always been a voracious eater. Often eating three bowls of fresh greens in 10 minutes. When he was at my school not a day went by when kids didn't drop at least one large dandelion flower in his dish. He'd immediateky wake up, walk briskly over and eat it. Drank every time he was soaked and required several poop scoops a day. Boy what I woukdnt give to scoop up his poop now. . I've taken pitty on him and allowed him to just have play sand in his enclosure. He hates any kind of moist or otherwise wet substrate. Have tried many different substrate combos and he always, without fail finds the one tiny spot with sand and camps out there until I eventually slowly add more sand. Not sure if it's the warmth or what, but he's always been attracted to it during the 16 years I've had him. At this point I'd send him to Hawaii if it would help him.

Hi again. I also have a russian. Ive had him for eight years. This spring he began to eat less and less for me and became very inactive. He eventually showed no interest in food and even when i lifted him and put him at his food he would just stand there and sleep. He stopped eating completely and slept all day everyday. No eating, no drinking, no pooping.
I brought him to a vet (not a reptile specialist) who had treated him a couple years previous and the vet said he was very underweight. He gave me critical care formula (oxbow) to feed with a small 1ml plastic syringe. It was a powder that you mixed with water. He showed me how to do it. I had to hold his mouth open and syringe the food in. He didnt like syringe feeding but barely had the strength to fight it. Vet said to mix it to porridge consistency as it was less likely to go down the wrong way. I was petrified feeding him as i didnt want it to go down his windpipe but i felt he wouldnt make it otherwise. The vet said to also offer food as normal. I fed him 2mls morning, 2mls day, 2mls night but the dosage amounts were given on the packes for various size torts.
I did find he picked up after a day or two of syringe feeding. I was getting anxious feeding him critical care though as he wasnt pooping but after day two he pooped. And every day after that. Also after about 8 days he started to eat his leaves and food again. I continued to give him the critical care as an extra boost.
I did end up bringing him to a reptile specialist vet in the end. He became puffy around his front legs and neck and i wanted to do blood tests, fecal tests and xrays to make sure it wasnt kidney stones, or parasites and to find out what casued it. In your case you know yours was outside for a long period of time so you know the cause. He was also very dehydrated.
After treatment from the vet , Ned is now much better.

My advice would be to keep yours warm.
Soak at least twice a day for 20-30 mins.
Make sure he has a good source of UVB light.
Feed him critical care if you feel you need to but watch to make sure he poops.
Get him to a vet if you can.
Hope some of that info helps.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Thank you. I've ordered the Critical Care and am hoping it comes soon. I've been syringe feeding him a soup mix I've been making. He's been able to get about 2 to 3 ml a day in. I've been just hoping beyond hope for a poop. He is so skinny and I know it has to be so painful for him when I prey his mouth open. I'm supposed to give him another antibiotic shot today and I'm terrified to do it. I didn't do a very good job on the last one. Honestly, I'm surprised he's lasted this long. Being gone in essentially a forced hibernation in rain, wind, hail, etc has put him through an extreme amount of stress. I'm trying to focus on nursing him and not on my not being able to find him during those two months. Every morning when I look in his enclosure, I'm always thinking he's no longer alive. But I gently pet his shell and he turns his long, skinny neck around a looks at me like, "yep.....I'm still here." Poor guy. He's a fighter for sure.

 

[Pearly]

Thank you. I've ordered the Critical Care and am hoping it comes soon. I've been syringe feeding him a soup mix I've been making. He's been able to get about 2 to 3 ml a day in. I've been just hoping beyond hope for a poop. He is so skinny and I know it has to be so painful for him when I prey his mouth open. I'm supposed to give him another antibiotic shot today and I'm terrified to do it. I didn't do a very good job on the last one. Honestly, I'm surprised he's lasted this long. Being gone in essentially a forced hibernation in rain, wind, hail, etc has put him through an extreme amount of stress. I'm trying to focus on nursing him and not on my not being able to find him during those two months. Every morning when I look in his enclosure, I'm always thinking he's no longer alive. But I gently pet his shell and he turns his long, skinny neck around a looks at me like, "yep.....I'm still here." Poor guy. He's a fighter for sure.

Remember that they are very tough. They are the DINOSAURS and their species survived many hardships. Are you able to keep him at around 84-85F and at least 80% humid? That alone would bump up his ability to fight the illness

 

[ZEROPILOT]

My tortoise Queen Bertha was saved with a surgically implanted Esophagostamy tube. Not a tube down the throat. It goes through the shoulder area and directly into the stomach.
She did not eat for months but I injected Critical care formula, water, Pedialite and baby food. She was tested and prodded and eventually treated for a broad spectrum antibiotic and lived.
My point is, if you can keep them hydrated and mildly nourished, they have great healing power.
The surgery wasn't very expensive.

 

[Kristin'sTortie]

Critical Care arrived yesterday and I've managed to get a tiny amount in him. It might be wishful thinking but I swear he was more with it today. I heard a scraping noise and when I went to check on him he was actually digging a place to sleep (he usually just lays in the same spot all day and night). I'm still soaking him twice a day and attempting to squeeze some Critical Care in his throat. His nose isn't bubbly anymore and he isn't drooling anymore (although he's probably so dehydrated that he's run out of spit.). Anyway, he disappeared Match 19th and I'm assuming hasn't eaten anything since that date. He was a very plump and active guy then. Hoping he can pull through this, though a lot of my online research has said no. Anyway, that's my update. I've ordered some tubing and am considering some tube feeding. If I can get enough in him with the syringe (maybe a tiny poop ???) I won't do the tube feed. Thank you for everyone's help. Good, healing thoughts needed.